What I am looking for is addiction. Addiction that surpasses the obvious draw of the IP, which doesn't seem to be strong enough to hold players past the games faults, addiction that is present for both casual and hardcore players.

Actually, it likely is the IP that has allowed the game to keep as many subs as it has. People not loyal to the IP have left in droves when the game did not meet their definition of an MMO.

No it isn't.

 

Do you actually play the game?

 

Right now we have Command Tokens AND Unassembled Components. I use one or both of them to buy what is in effect a "Third Token", I then trade THAT in for and Item I do want. Then to get the next Tier Gear I do the same again, effectively abandoning the gear I have just spent CT and UC to buy. Every time you move into the "next tier" everything you have spent so far is wasted.

 

The SIMPLE version I alluded to would be:

Buy Tier 1 Gear with (for example) 50 "End Game Tokens".

To upgrade to T2 will cost you the T1 Item and 100 End Game Tokens.

To upgrade to T3 would cost you the T2 Item and 200 End Game Tokens.

Nothing is wasted.

 

No need for 8 different vendors per class, just one.

 

All round less coding resources used, and the system makes players feel like their time and effort is used in a useful manner.

 

Right now every reward I get from T1 Command Crates is 100% utterly useless - because no part of it will be used when I move on to T2 Crates, and no part of the T2 Crates loot will be used when I move on to T3.

 

I would say that all that Command Levels is is a disguise for a pointless grind; but apart from one or two white knights and the Developers themselves no else seem naive enough to fall for the disguise.

 

All The Best

At this point youre just trying to create an argument. I agreed that a simpler system may be more efficient, but so far i havent seen an all inclusive suggestion from you. And they likely split up the npcs because of the volume of classes and tiers of gear.

And the gear or components arent wasted, as you get gear from soending it. It sounds like the cost is what is really bothering you.

Im just not seeing where you are completely against CR, but rather certain specific elements of CR.

Remember, for the sake of this discussion there is no need to denounce or defend Bioware. A few assumptions are made...

1) The game is currently losing more players than it is gaining, and that churn rate is increasing.

2) Bioware has made some poor decisions recently that has directly contributed to this churn.

3) There are things that can be done to convince these players to return.

All are assumptions, nothing more. Any or all of the statements above could be more complicated, a bit inaccurate or completely false....they are conditions that exist entirely to support the discussion at hand.

The statements are assumed correct because a discussion of this type can not move forward unless that baseline is established and accepted. Outside of this discussion any or all of those contentions can and should be debated, but I would ask that the debate be kept out of this discussion.

Again, naturally, folks are welcome to do as they wish. It is only a request.

Remember, for the sake of this discussion there is no need to denounce or defend Bioware. A few assumptions are made...

 

1) The game is currently losing more players than it is gaining, and that churn rate is increasing.

2) Bioware has made some poor decisions recently that has directly contributed to this churn.

3) There are things that can be done to convince these players to return.

 

All are assumptions, nothing more. Any or all of the statements above could be more complicated, a bit inaccurate or completely false....they are conditions that exist entirely to support the discussion at hand.

 

The statements are assumed correct because a discussion of this type can not move forward unless that baseline is established and accepted. Outside of this discussion any or all of those contentions can and should be debated, but I would ask that the debate be kept out of this discussion.

 

Again, naturally, folks are welcome to do as they wish. It is only a request.

Those assumptions breed further assumptions, which potentially creates further inaccuracies, and makes the point of this conversation meaningless.

Additionally, each persons opinion as to the magnitude of each of those assumptions plays a huge part in discussing what areas of the game are truly needing improvement.

For example, how much is the game truly being affected by the loss and churn? How can we support that answer? Are we reading into it too much? Does bioware even care? Does bioware even feel a significant loss yet, in terms of their end goal.

Bioware has made mistakes. Are they alone in doing so? Were they mistakes by their own decision, or mistakes trying to please the true (not the assumed, vocal) playerbase? What was the true magnitude of the mistakes (again, not assumed)?

I certainly believe there are things that can be done to bring players back, but part of it must also come from the players themselves by dropping the grudge they have and remaining open-minded to biowares side of the discussion. If you want to add a reasonable assumption, it would be that players making suggestions should innately assume the change they propose will NOT come to game, as they are unable to please all at the same time, especially when players have conflicting suggestions.

I would love to have a meaningful discussion about ways to improve the game, but people need to allow the conversation to take place by dropping their set in stone views of how and why things have come to the place they are now.

SNIP...

I could come back to every single point you tried to make here, but we'd just go around and around all day because you and I could not disagree more about the state of this game. So much so that I think you and I are done talking about it, honestly. Plus, I haven't seen you make a single suggestion in this thread about how Bioware could turn things around. If you don't think they need to turn things around, then why are you posting in a thread that asks for suggestions on how to do what most of us consider necessary? Save your 1v1 comment wars, because they aren't helping anyone and really just clutter the thread with garbage.

Out of respect for the request of the OP to keep this thread on topic and not about who agrees or disagrees with whom, I am going to not even bother to reply to this post (or any others you make unless on topic and not direct attacks on the comment poster themselves) and instead keep the thread on topic.

How can Bioware turn things around?

1. Content. Significant content, that is worth replaying and not "one size fits all". Never again should someone log into the game with nothing left to do, no matter how long they've been here. I realize that might be tough, but I think more focus on replayability with what they are putting into the game takes this more into the realm of possibility. "Have I done this on all my alts? Have I tried this with different classes/factions/alignments?". When there is a benefit to replaying content (and the ability to do so because it's built that way), you extend the "to do" list for all players - and that's really needed right now. (It also adds to your addiction factor I think, for completionist types).

2. It is best if that content is spread over the multiple areas of the game that they have developed: GSF, PvP, PvE, Story, Raids, all of it.

3. Subscriber rewards and new player rewards that aren't cheap reskins of mounts or droid pets.

4. Meaningful events added - as well as updates to Rakghoul event, Bounty Hunter event, Gree event, and anything they run on a regular basis to give anyone a reason to keep doing them that isn't brand new to the game.

5. Advertise the game. Star Wars is so huge with the new movies, this wouldn't even be that hard to do - but they have to add some worthwhile things to keep people around after they lure them in with the advertising, and continue to do so in order to really right the ship.

6. Support for guilds and in-game communities. When people make friends and ties to other people in games, they stick around longer. Fixing the conquest system, and making more systems that give guilds a reason to exist go a long way to making a game and the community you're involved with in that game important to someone. That person sticks around, even if they get bored for a few weeks waiting for new content.

I'm sure I could suggest more, but I am really just waiting for the road map to see if anything is getting through the forums to the top and turning on any lightbulbs anywhere.

Those assumptions breed further assumptions, which potentially creates further inaccuracies, and makes the point of this conversation meaningless.

I couldnt disagree more. The idea that one has to avoid even DISCUSSING something like this even if it is possible simply because it could lead to further discussions is just plain ludicrous IMO, and smacks of protectionism in my eyes. I would note that, if you do not agree that folks should speak about these sort of things overall you are welcome to see your way out of the conversation....though I do not think that is what you are trying to say here.

I am fairly sure you are not being forced to participate at any rate.

Additionally, each persons opinion as to the magnitude of each of those assumptions plays a huge part in discussing what areas of the game are truly needing improvement.

That is an odd qualification. I think you are trying to say one has to know what is wrong to say what can be done to fix it, but I am saying that simply SAYING something is wrong fosters a general discussion that promotes suggestions.

Each person will qualify their remarks accordingly. There is no need to grade the premise overall IMO, it is best to leave that to individual interpretations.

I certainly believe there are things that can be done to bring players back, but part of it must also come from the players themselves by dropping the grudge they have and remaining open-minded to biowares side of the discussion.

I fail to see how personal perceptions would in any way effect whether or not other players would return, other than players raging against the game or giving it bad reviews....which is NOT what this thread is seeking.

If you want to add a reasonable assumption, it would be that players making suggestions should innately assume the change they propose will NOT come to game, as they are unable to please all at the same time, especially when players have conflicting suggestions.

That is requesting qualifications for suggestions. To place that many rules on the conversation would be to stifle it before it begins. If this conversation proves anything, it proves that folks are more than capable of making their own qualifications. I think it is best to stick to the original premise as the only qualifier with respect to this discussion.

would love to have a meaningful discussion about ways to improve the game, but people need to allow the conversation to take place by dropping their set in stone views of how and why things have come to the place they are now.

Ok, setting aside your own personal qualifications for participation, which you are most certainly entitled to, I would say that generally i agree with you in part....in pointing out, as I have more than once, that there is no need to deride OR defend Bioware with respect to this discussion, nor is it necessary to discuss how we got here....

....that is another discussion.

This discussion is simple. Assuming the premise is correct, what can Bioware do to reverse the trend and draw back former players to the game.

There are no other qualifiers, but the conversation would certainly flow better if folks leave their judgements, pro and con at the door. If we care about this title and it's health we should discuss ways to bring back old players...not rehash old arguments about what has been done or how we got here....

...there are plenty of threads for that in the forum.

How can Bioware turn things around?

1. Content. Significant content, that is worth replaying and not "one size fits all". Never again should someone log into the game with nothing left to do, no matter how long they've been here. I realize that might be tough, but I think more focus on replayability with what they are putting into the game takes this more into the realm of possibility. "Have I done this on all my alts? Have I tried this with different classes/factions/alignments?". When there is a benefit to replaying content (and the ability to do so because it's built that way), you extend the "to do" list for all players - and that's really needed right now. (It also adds to your addiction factor I think, for completionist types).

 

2. It is best if that content is spread over the multiple areas of the game that they have developed: GSF, PvP, PvE, Story, Raids, all of it.

 

3. Subscriber rewards and new player rewards that aren't cheap reskins of mounts or droid pets.

 

4. Meaningful events added - as well as updates to Rakghoul event, Bounty Hunter event, Gree event, and anything they run on a regular basis to give anyone a reason to keep doing them that isn't brand new to the game.

 

5. Advertise the game. Star Wars is so huge with the new movies, this wouldn't even be that hard to do - but they have to add some worthwhile things to keep people around after they lure them in with the advertising, and continue to do so in order to really right the ship.

 

6. Support for guilds and in-game communities. When people make friends and ties to other people in games, they stick around longer. Fixing the conquest system, and making more systems that give guilds a reason to exist go a long way to making a game and the community you're involved with in that game important to someone. That person sticks around, even if they get bored for a few weeks waiting for new content.

 

I'm sure I could suggest more, but I am really just waiting for the road map to see if anything is getting through the forums to the top and turning on any lightbulbs anywhere.

Pretty good points, especially 1,2,3 and 5. Completely agree, this is exactly what the game need right now. Sadly it ain't gonna happen. I am also waiting for the roadmap to see if there will be any need to suggest anything anymore.

How can Bioware turn things around?

1. Content. Significant content, that is worth replaying and not "one size fits all". Never again should someone log into the game with nothing left to do, no matter how long they've been here. I realize that might be tough, but I think more focus on replayability with what they are putting into the game takes this more into the realm of possibility. "Have I done this on all my alts? Have I tried this with different classes/factions/alignments?". When there is a benefit to replaying content (and the ability to do so because it's built that way), you extend the "to do" list for all players - and that's really needed right now. (It also adds to your addiction factor I think, for completionist types).

 

2. It is best if that content is spread over the multiple areas of the game that they have developed: GSF, PvP, PvE, Story, Raids, all of it.

 

3. Subscriber rewards and new player rewards that aren't cheap reskins of mounts or droid pets.

 

4. Meaningful events added - as well as updates to Rakghoul event, Bounty Hunter event, Gree event, and anything they run on a regular basis to give anyone a reason to keep doing them that isn't brand new to the game.

 

5. Advertise the game. Star Wars is so huge with the new movies, this wouldn't even be that hard to do - but they have to add some worthwhile things to keep people around after they lure them in with the advertising, and continue to do so in order to really right the ship.

 

6. Support for guilds and in-game communities. When people make friends and ties to other people in games, they stick around longer. Fixing the conquest system, and making more systems that give guilds a reason to exist go a long way to making a game and the community you're involved with in that game important to someone. That person sticks around, even if they get bored for a few weeks waiting for new content.

 

I'm sure I could suggest more, but I am really just waiting for the road map to see if anything is getting through the forums to the top and turning on any lightbulbs anywhere.

All of this is spot on. When there is new content to do - the Copero flashpoint, the Darth Hexid event, whatnot - people log in. When there's nothing new to do, they become bored. There's no reason to keep doing events like the rakghouls and bounty week when it's exactly the same quests over and over again.

I would add another thing: QoL improvements that many have suggested that make players' community involvement more meaningful and on their terms:

- Legacy/Account-wide ignore

- Auto duel decline option

SWG had a great program for subscriber rewards IMO, and I think a similar system would do well here.

The idea was to reward subs for total amount of time they played, but I would change it up a bit....I would set it for total amount of time SUBSCRIBED.

First, you would need to be subscribed to receive the rewards, and you could only collect the reward on one server, one character.

Second, it would be set up in tiers....every 90 days of subscription, the days/months would have no need to be contiguous. All items would be bound to legacy (with noted exceptions), so they can not be sold or traded.

90 - 100cc

180 - low demand armor set (bronze)

270 - low demand speeder (bronze)

360 - transfer token

450 - 250cc

540 - medium demand armor set (silver)

630 - medium demand speeder (silver)

720 - 5 character slots

810 - 500cc

900 - high demand armor set (gold)

990 - high demand speeder (gold)

1080 - rename token

1170 - 1000cc

1260 - rare armor set (platinum)

1350 - rare demand speeder (platinum)

1440 - level up token

1530 - 2000cc

1620 - Legacy XP bonus armor set

1710 - rare animal and droid companion

1800 - white/white and black/black dye

1890 - 3000cc

1980 - 5 ultra rare weapons

2070 - code for 30 days sub time (can be given to friend)

2160 - 100 percent XP boost legacy implant

2250 - code for 90 days sub and 2400 coins (can be given to friend), exclusive mount and title

This is just a general example of what they could offer, they could go more conservative, but IMO those that have been subbed this entire time deserve special rewards.

How can Bioware turn things around?

1. Content. Significant content, that is worth replaying and not "one size fits all".

 

2. It is best if that content is spread over the multiple areas of the game that they have developed: GSF, PvP, PvE, Story, Raids, all of it.

 

3. Subscriber rewards and new player rewards that aren't cheap reskins of mounts or droid pets.

 

4. Meaningful events added - as well as updates to Rakghoul event, Bounty Hunter event, Gree event, and anything they run on a regular basis to give anyone a reason to keep doing them that isn't brand new to the game.

 

5. Advertise the game.

 

6. Support for guilds and in-game communities.

 

I'm sure I could suggest more, but I am really just waiting for the road map to see if anything is getting through the forums to the top and turning on any lightbulbs anywhere.

GREAT list Penny...I agree with every single point!!!

The amount of content will not change so suggestions like this, in the game's 7th year, are kinda... pointless. They need to work with what they got the best they can and avoid doing the same old counterproductive mistakes.

1. My first suggestion - don't skip on releasing an expansion when you got massive new Star Wars movie coming out. Sorry but it was just dumb to skip Fall 2017 expansion with Last Jedi coming out. If they skip the Summer too with Solo movie, there will NOT be another oppurtunity like this till Fall 2019... The movies are free advertisement

2. Don't waste content. Why are Star Fortresses, Seeker/Macrobinocular heroics and Eternal Championship not part of the Flashpoint pool? Why don't Toborro & Monolith (and periodical Eyeless/Xeno) have their own Group Finder queue day? It's basically wasted content which causes the wrong impression that there's less multiplayer/group stuff added than there actually is.

3. Why is Seeker Droid wasting? Allow digging on every part of the world maps on every planet, add reputation tokens, buffs, credits, Jawa Junk, decorations etc. to dig out and done. It would give players something to do even when standing and waiting for queues. As it is, Seeker Droid is another game system abandoned and wasting

I just went through the F2P New Player Intro for Wildstar - including a discounted Item from the Store, and an option on a second to get a Mount and a House from the start.

I can't recall seeing so many players in the "new player zone" even when the game had only just launched, and chat is full of players offering help, throwing out guild invites and suchlike.

And even as F2P you get Free Gift every day you log in, might be dyes, a few health pots etc, but can also be a Mount, a Skybox for your Housing Plot for example.

All in all a far better F2P New Player experience than is offered by SWTOR.

Which maybe why Wildstar chat is full of optimism for the future of the game.

All The Best

We discussed this in the HK-55 thread but this is a good place to bring it up in order to avoid the hyper fixation on one particular reward. I suggest that they do away with subscriber rewards gated behind specific subscription dates and instead switch to periods of time. Meaning the subscriber rewards are given out after maintaining your subscription without interruption for a set amount of months. Doing subscriber rewards this way promotes longevity of subscription instead of encouraging people to subscribe from date A to date B. From other threads and posts I've seen multiple people say they're resubbing to get x.y,z and then letting the sub drop again. That's not what the game needs for survival and and makes the promotions temporary answers to a problem that needs a longer term solution.

Switching to this method would also address the giant argument that pops up every time someone voices an interest in past rewards. Sure it would take from exclusivity but it would mean people had to subscribe and STAY subscribed to get a subscriber reward. Something like this would be relatively simple and cost effective to implement. Wouldn't magically fix everything, but it would be one small step they could take to help maintain subscription numbers.

We discussed this in the HK-55 thread but this is a good place to bring it up in order to avoid the hyper fixation on one particular reward. I suggest that they do away with subscriber rewards gated behind specific subscription dates and instead switch to periods of time. Meaning the subscriber rewards are given out after maintaining your subscription without interruption for a set amount of months. Doing subscriber rewards this way promotes longevity of subscription instead of encouraging people to subscribe from date A to date B. From other threads and posts I've seen multiple people say they're resubbing to get x.y,z and then letting the sub drop again. That's not what the game needs for survival and and makes the promotions temporary answers to a problem that needs a longer term solution.

 

Switching to this method would also address the giant argument that pops up every time someone voices an interest in past rewards. Sure it would take from exclusivity but it would mean people had to subscribe and STAY subscribed to get a subscriber reward. Something like this would be relatively simple and cost effective to implement. Wouldn't magically fix everything, but it would be one small step they could take to help maintain subscription numbers.

And then you would have people QQing about how they are being "punished" because maybe they can't afford a continual sub, or they went on vacation, or their dog died. And it is not fair, that they not get the same shinies.....Sound familiar?

And then you would have people QQing about how they are being "punished" because maybe they can't afford a continual sub, or they went on vacation, or their dog died. And it is not fair, that they not get the same shinies.....Sound familiar?

Except that in this case there would be no specific date, so if they couldn't get it one go around they can always start over. Just have the subscriber rewards permanently attainable by ongoing requirements. I think the biggest complaint is not that they don't have it, but that there's not even the option to EARN it again. Not everyone who wants subscriber rewards is asking to get them for nothing. I think it's very important to recognize that. Wanting something handed to you and being willing to earn it are two very different things.

People are going to complain regardless of what the devs do, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try different methods. Your immediate dismissal of the suggestion because people will complain kind of misses the point. It's about providing incentive to remain subbed, not avoiding people saying they want something. Don't dismiss the idea out of hand because it means some rewards might come back. They could also do a wholly new set of goodies. It rewards new and old subscribers and gives everyone the same shot, under the same qualifications.

To automatically dismiss it just seems like you don't want new and returning subscribers to have the same ability to earn subscriber rewards. I don't think that's where you're coming from, but that is how it could be interpreted.

Maybe it's time to give up multiplayer gaming for good. At least with binary blobs and centralized multiplayer services, like this one.

Conclusion: don't game online outside of a virtual machine with tightly controlled inputs.

Also don't pull this stunt or be affiliated with someone who would. Oops.

Maybe it's time to give up multiplayer gaming for good. At least with binary blobs and centralized multiplayer services, like this one.

 

Conclusion: don't game online outside of a virtual machine with tightly controlled inputs.

 

Also don't pull this stunt or be affiliated with someone who would. Oops.

Thanks for this piece of insight. Ive been preaching this for a long time. The community has no clue what metrics are going into the decisions by BW or EA, but you can sure as hell believe that they are making the decision based on monetary stabilization. So even though you hoot and holler that the expansions suck and people are leaving in drones, EA has shown that they are doing their homework and have a good idea how to optimize income even if people are leaving.

This is business as usual in big business. Nothing surprising here, tbh.

All of these suggestions are great, but ultimately anything they add to the game can, and likely will be tweaked in some form or fashion.

But.....nobody wishes to listen, so thats fine too. Im ahead of my time.

one thing they could do if they wanted to bring in more customers is to make 2 additional language servers: Spanish and Chinese. There is a huge untapped market out there just ripe for plucking....

I have often found it odd when folks attempt to find ways to stifle suggestions. I would certainly find some attempts impressive, as folks would find some interesting and novel ways to drop a slant on the idea that giving suggestions is a bad idea.

Bioware has directly indicated that not only do they seek all forms of feedback AND suggestions, including from this forum, but they also ENCOURAGE this practice. They made this very clear.

If I remember properly the only request was that it remains constructive....they did not provide specific details on what they consider constructive, but I think that is obvious.

IMO Biowares opinion on the issue is far more important than any contrary opinion game patrons may have.

I don't think any more can be done Artemis. You've been on these forums ever since I can remember offering some great suggestions but, it's too little too late for SWTOR. A combination of a botched launch, F2P in less than a year, lack of endgame content since launch, staff getting let go and quitting, slug-paced responses to server transfers and merges, the game making pendulum swings in one direction when it came to content updates (from PvP to PvE to singleplayer), and incompetent dev decisions in general (Galactic Command, no west coast servers, credit exploits, etc) have left this game dying a slow and painful death.

I diaagree. There are many ways to make the game better, but it needs to come from accurate perspectives, not assumptions of how the state of the game is, or why changes were made in the past.

Accept the game for what it is, a dynamic game that CAN be everything you want it to be if you devote the time to it. Changes dont happen overnight, and honestly, with so many moving parts, these games are trial and error pieces because nobody knows how the community will respond to the changes, or if they will even give the changes a chance and swallow their pride.

My suggestion - relax and let the game come to you, make suggestions as ideas, not as threats or prophecies that will save the game, understand you may be wrong and dont have all the details, including BW/EA's end goal for this game, understand you dont completely know their financial situation.

Make suggestions based on what YOU THINK will be fun and enjoyable, and not suggestions based on spite. But understand your suggestions dont necessarily align perfectly with every other player, so be open minded to criticism about your suggestions.

And after they release a roadmao, or content itself, if you arent happy with it, relax, do the content (or dont), and go play another game until the next announcement. BW/EA owes nothing to you, and have every right to accomplish their ultimate goals in whatever way they feel will allow them to.

You dont control their decisions, but you do control your emotions, so relax, and take the game for what it gives you. If you havent realized by now, whatever they promised (or whatever you THINK they promised) at launch is long gone, so look at the game here and now, and decide if its right for you or not.

Let preferred status players post on forum. To avoid spam, only verified accounts older than ( insert period of time here).

I would be fine with giving them a section where they can post, they're still ex-customers, but I understand Bioware not allowing them to post everywhere...they're EX-customers...it's just too much drama allowing them to post freely on the forums. Bioware runs a business and allowing EX-customers to post would be bad for business.

So goodluck bringing anyone, any proper gamers, anyone than more than just the random casuals and bads that won't stick around for long after playing through the story, back.

Actually you've just admitted that those "proper gamers" don't stick around, they never have, they never will - more than the challenge of "real content" they love the challenge of "new game".

Meanwhile, I'm casual, I'm bad and I don't PvP - and apart from a recent three month break I've been here since the day the game went public.

Your argument is wholly inconsistent, and fundamentally disproves the point you thought you were making.

Well done.

All The Best

I would be fine with giving them a section where they can post, they're still ex-customers, but I understand Bioware not allowing them to post everywhere...they're EX-customers...it's just too much drama allowing them to post freely on the forums. Bioware runs a business and allowing EX-customers to post would be bad for business.

Actually even when not subbed a player can still be a PAYING customer because if they buy CC.

The assumption that Preferred Players are "ex customers" is fundamentally flawed in a F2P + Micro-transaction game.

All The Best