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Nerf Guard!


krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
01.03.2018 , 02:08 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Yeah because all I read is a lack of strategy.

Maybe rather than bring a brainless oaf smashing things at random and wanting them to die, coordinate a little. While as a tank I have survived 6 people wailing on me to top the damage board, I and my healer have gone down to 2 good dps as well.

So I repeat: any of these suggestions destroy the purpose of tanking in PvP. If you don't think tanking should be a thing then just say that, not some nonsense that makes you sound like a brain dead monkey smasher.



This is literally what I've been saying since this thread was created last July.

All these skanking threads started about the time I finally got fed up and went back to tanking. Coincidence, sure.

Guard is one of very few things that require actual strategy to work around. And yes, if you're good enough you can kill a healer through it. But sure, we should all just play dps because that's the way to win games and the only way all things are fair.
Obviously DPS wins games.

That's why our guilds always loses.... oh wait.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
01.03.2018 , 02:56 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
try play 20 solo none arena WZs.
This is literally the root of most of your problems. In a game full of premades ruining pvp, why would you want to submit yourself to such torture?

The rest of your problems seem to be an inability to play around guard.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 02:58 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
Well "Mr" KendraP

It is just too focking easy to say it is a L2P, strategy or laziness issue. Guard is about numbers and math..

You make an argument about 1 time, a long time a go.. in a galaxy far far away.. when 2 DPS properly with tons of cc, internal damage/dots/self healing and luck defeated you and a healer friend of yours, like it is something that happens every day.. in most WZs.. it is a bad argument, who cares about 1% or 5% of games?

If you are unsure of how to do math a make coherent logical arguments yourself.. maybe.. Just maybe you shouldn't pick on other ppl doing it? This is the 2nd time I hear your resentful .. smash monkey, no strategy rant. If Guard and Healers were soo easy to beat, no Arenas with the world bests pvpers would go end in a tie.. no WZs with 2 healers and 2 tanks split at 2 nodes would ever be a grind with less than 10 total deaths.. but.. it.. is.. and most of the time..

You are clearly not able to grasp any of the arguments to why Guard is the root of almost all crap in swtor PvP beside "aids-amounts-of-stuns and slows". That is not mine or others fault. You sound kinda stupid to me tbh..

The logic is sound and you got it all served in coherent arguments. You most live in a bubble if you don't get that since Guard is so strong.. ppl without guard are instantgibbed.. Then Healing is overtuned, then DPS become overtuned, THIS makes dev give us DCDs we dont need.. then MERC happened.. it is the climax of this problem. If you remove these DCDs without adressing Guard. Then it solves nothing! Then the problem gets bigger. All WZs are predetermined due to 1 Tank-Guard and +1 healer..

So Mr. KendraP have fun on the moon of Incoherent denial.. try play 20 solo none arena WZs. Note who wins, note #tanks and #healers. 90%+ of all WZs are won with +1 Tank Guard or +1 Healer.
Yes I'm resentful in this thread. I started replying to it back in July when this first started.

I'm resentful because this thread is full of people that want to take away my entire purpose.

What if I said dps or healing shouldn't be a thing?

I mentioned the one match because I got bashed for mentioning the one where I survived 6 people. My point was that I've done both. Died to 2 on 2 and survived 8 on 2. The difference is basic strategy.

But by all means tell me how snipers and maras are instagibbed if they don't have a guard.

I don't see how the lack matchmaking means that tanking shouldn't be a thing. The team with a healer will always win. Why shouldn't the team with the tank win?

I've been very logical on this thread until today. Quite frankly I'm fed up with people who want to take tanking away. Skanking sure, make pure tanking a thing and I'd happily go back.

Foambreaker's Avatar


Foambreaker
01.03.2018 , 03:50 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Yeah because all I read is a lack of strategy.

Maybe rather than bring a brainless oaf smashing things at random and wanting them to die, coordinate a little. While as a tank I have survived 6 people wailing on me to top the damage board, I and my healer have gone down to 2 good dps as well.

So I repeat: any of these suggestions destroy the purpose of tanking in PvP. If you don't think tanking should be a thing then just say that, not some nonsense that makes you sound like a brain dead monkey smasher.



This is literally what I've been saying since this thread was created last July.

All these skanking threads started about the time I finally got fed up and went back to tanking. Coincidence, sure.

Guard is one of very few things that require actual strategy to work around. And yes, if you're good enough you can kill a healer through it. But sure, we should all just play dps because that's the way to win games and the only way all things are fair.
Skilled players do not need to defend advantages, only bads...

MackPol's Avatar


MackPol
01.03.2018 , 03:58 PM | #125
Person that was saying something about math and giving examples from Regs and nodes.
Few things to note there ... Regs have a matchmaking problem, anything can seem OP if one team is at disadvantage matchmaking wise. 2 operatives can prevent capping even better then tank and heal combo for example. There is many ways to cap a node without killing ppl like cc and cap or spam capping. You can Zerg on t and h combo...
3 dd players are able to kill said combo.. they can use their hard stuns to kill h thru guard or they can cc and interrupt h and kill tank. In 8 sec mezz window 3 dd should be able to deal at least 150k dmg and kill tank. Just sooo many possibilities to play around guard. Donít forget the guard is bad for tank and that can be used against. Damaged is still dealt to a tank ... Reg wz examples are not good because of the matchmaking issue.
If you lost to the premade it was not cos of guard but cos they had balanced team, good players and knowledge how to kill targets.

Most team ranked games I have experienced do not end in acid because people can efficiently play around guard or tanks fail to switch fast enough, proactively enough or teams deal enough AoE dmg to render guard useless. The latter happening very often lately.

Guard is vital part of trinity matches and is literally one of the things that make pvp in swtor good, encouraging team play and exploiting strongest points of any set up.

Also it is a vital part of tanking so just nerfing it without exploring other possibly more pressing issues could make
tanking useless.

I have submitted several posts lately about guard and tanking in general but responses were few and not really addressing what was said. Anyway tho Bio will surely find a way to break game even more wheter by listen to those guard cries or something else :/

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
01.03.2018 , 04:00 PM | #126
Nerfing guard by half is almost similar to removing it. We need something to counter swift 3v1 kills or else all arenas will be sorc healers only, due to them being able to stand the same amount of damage twice due to force barrier, and they will also have to pick the forgotten barrier-healing utility or else they will be stunned during bastion and killed from their 10% right after. Arenas will become stun+burst healer 1st to win. And "strategy" will be limited to "let's stunburst the mara 1st, they will never see it coming, lol", and when people realize guards and taunts aren't enough to matter tanks will be abandoned completely like pyrotechs.

As for the suggestion to make tanks with "active tools for defending" I feel like I am repeating myself when I say this is not how all PVE content was designed. Tanks should spend their time targeting enemies and controlling the targeting of the enemies, not targeting friendly players and casting bubbles, sorcs do that. Changing tanks to "defenders" rather than, well, have no better word than "tanks", defensive things who make enemies attack them instead of their squishier DPS and healer comrades. The current function of guard is the only way in which a player can compel enemy players to switch away target from one ally (no one else can do it for anyone but himself), which is the closest thing to seriously forcing their targeting otherwise like taunt does on mobs, and is also damaging the tank, as the result of taunting enemy mobs would make them damage the tank. You are already suggesting to overhaul most numbers and abilities in the game spec-wise, which will probably never happen. Add to that the need to adjust all PVE content to match the new play style tanks will adapt (if they focus friends, they probably are too busy to maintain agro, kite bosses, tank swap, move boss to a specific location on specific time, taunt in 0.5s notice due to a mistake, they just won't be able to do it all at once as the game currently is...

krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
01.03.2018 , 04:00 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Foambreaker View Post
Skilled players do not need to defend advantages, only bads...
No, the bads are here sitting on the forums complaining about mechanics that have been in the game since release.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 04:11 PM | #128
It is my personal opinion thst nerfing guard by half would kill tanking in PvP. I am one of the few that run a skank as a tank anyway, the overwhelming majority of guards are from the squshiest dps specs in the game any way.

Maybe rather than complaining about guard we should worry about balancing DCDs amongst the dps classes. Tell me how, exactly, a PT dps and a merc dps have even slightly similar DCDs.

Mara being the one advanced class I do not have (as I strongly prefer guardians and every time I try to level a sent I find myself thinking I could be playing a Guardian) so I do not know exactly what it is that makes them good, but whatever they have seems far more effective than my self heal when I was running vigi. To my understanding we both have ward, guardians have reflect, enure, and focused defense. Enure is a joke in PvP. Focused defense scaled so poorly in 5 0 for dps it's almost pathetic now, and reflect is supposed to be our anti focus but no one pays attention to it really.

Sniper, they are less up front tanky and more of a manage to stay out of range type. Mercs are the face tanks.

The reason for skanking is half that tank gear is useless and half that dps specs of tank capable classes, quite frankly, get focused in seconds. Maybe fix that first?

krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
01.03.2018 , 04:12 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
It is not

I think the thousand of players in Arena fights experiencing majority of matches ending in ties shred any notion of this being a L2P issue. Maybe you are just cognitively lazy and don't want complicated solutions for complex problems?

Lets imagine that if this was easy to fix, it would have been.. So.. it is not easy to fix, that suggest a complex problem right?

Mr. L2P ^^
Where are your thousands of players? I am seeing maybe three here. The same three that have been complaining since July.

I know that i've found my own solution to this problem and haven't lost a match in maybe four weeks. This is against good teams, bad teams, guarded healers, no healers, take your pick.

So maybe it is that simple.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

Foambreaker's Avatar


Foambreaker
01.03.2018 , 04:12 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by krosswong View Post
No, the bads are here sitting on the forums complaining about mechanics that have been in the game since release.
Guard was given to DPS builds of the tank classes in an update, I believe it was with the no hybrid trees.

Got Phasewalk? Air Strike?