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Theran Shan?


Dracofish's Avatar


Dracofish
10.15.2017 , 05:11 PM | #3111
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
Nah, DA:I was the same as KotFE IMO with an organization founded by someone else (Cassandra and Divine Justinia) and already staffed when you join it as a figurehead. I mean you add people to both organizations sure, but both fell flat to me. The advisors and minions(war table missions) in DA:I are the ones who do anything important such as command the troops or plan every move the inquisition makes while the inquisitor is doing grunt work like herding goats and picking herbs and occasionally goes where the advisors tell him to go and kills everything.

I don't mind coming up with my own backstories, it's preferable to me in fact but the current story should be told in-game with as little "X important thing happened offscreen and we'll just tell you about it" as possible. For example, we're told that the Republic and Empire were devastated by Zakuul but we never get to see that supposed aftermath. I want to see bread lines in the upper levels of Coruscant, rioting and looting in the streets of Dromund Kaas, etc...BioWare used to know how to make things interesting and real and now they either forgot or don't care. I need to stop with the OT rant though
Well, the problem is that if they were aiming for realism, the Commander would never leave and we'd be the ones stuck doing paperwork or coordinating troop movements (kinda like Malcom's job and how he laments leaving the action behind). The "fun" part of the game is the front-lines stuff, so they kinda have to "handwave" off the actual "commanding" part to the folks who stay behind the lines (Theron/Lana/Cullen/Leliana/Josephine). And throughout most of FE/ET (I love that it says "feet" lulz), you're locked out of Theron and Lana as companions because they're the ones actually doing the coordinating and "leading" and you're doing the grunt stuff. So yeah, you're totally a figurehead. Maybe it would be easier to think of the Commander that way. Why they thought they'd need a figurehead is beyond me though...that's another handwave. I could see maybe the Jedi Battlemaster or a Dark Council member, because you're already leaders of the people (especially the Dark Council member) but it's kinda hard to handwave a Smuggler or a Bounty Hunter or an Agent who has always lived in the shadows. Most of the classes I really don't get why they weren't just left in carbonite...but *handwave* they're important. :P

And yeah, it would be nice to see the actual "After Zakuul" versions of the planets. I was just on Alderaan starting the Star Fortress stuff (which I still can't complete yet solo *sigh*) and it was mixed right in with the original planet. I guess I can see that they'd have to devote more resources into building two different versions of every single planet, but I do get it. Kinda like how it's never sat well with me that you can just go tool around in the old fleet if you sided with the other faction.

And BTW thank you for the figurehead stuff, but now it's got me thinking that I need to touch on that in my fic...like my character questioning why they woke her up in the first place (other than the fact that Theron's in love with her). Or why she's even in charge when really, she's not.
Me on Ao3! MelissaGT

AdharaKyleth's Avatar


AdharaKyleth
12.06.2017 , 03:26 PM | #3112
I'm reviving this thread.
Theronite
Adhara Kyleth Teraalin Nyx Scatha
http://www.swtor.com/r/fVFywm

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.06.2017 , 10:06 PM | #3113
Quote: Originally Posted by Dracofish View Post
Well, the problem is that if they were aiming for realism, the Commander would never leave and we'd be the ones stuck doing paperwork or coordinating troop movements (kinda like Malcom's job and how he laments leaving the action behind). The "fun" part of the game is the front-lines stuff, so they kinda have to "handwave" off the actual "commanding" part to the folks who stay behind the lines (Theron/Lana/Cullen/Leliana/Josephine). And throughout most of FE/ET (I love that it says "feet" lulz), you're locked out of Theron and Lana as companions because they're the ones actually doing the coordinating and "leading" and you're doing the grunt stuff. So yeah, you're totally a figurehead. Maybe it would be easier to think of the Commander that way. Why they thought they'd need a figurehead is beyond me though...that's another handwave. I could see maybe the Jedi Battlemaster or a Dark Council member, because you're already leaders of the people (especially the Dark Council member) but it's kinda hard to handwave a Smuggler or a Bounty Hunter or an Agent who has always lived in the shadows. Most of the classes I really don't get why they weren't just left in carbonite...but *handwave* they're important. :P

And yeah, it would be nice to see the actual "After Zakuul" versions of the planets. I was just on Alderaan starting the Star Fortress stuff (which I still can't complete yet solo *sigh*) and it was mixed right in with the original planet. I guess I can see that they'd have to devote more resources into building two different versions of every single planet, but I do get it. Kinda like how it's never sat well with me that you can just go tool around in the old fleet if you sided with the other faction.

And BTW thank you for the figurehead stuff, but now it's got me thinking that I need to touch on that in my fic...like my character questioning why they woke her up in the first place (other than the fact that Theron's in love with her). Or why she's even in charge when really, she's not.
Herp derp I never saw this reply but since the thread is now revived I might as well respond ^_^

I definitely agree with you that it makes no sense for the Smuggler, Agent, and BH to be this key figure that Lana thinks she needs to have as a figurehead. It makes sense for the force using classes and maybe even the trooper, but the girl who shoots random people for money? The guy who slept his way across the galaxy and stole a bunch of stuff? The girl who lives in the shadows that nobody's heard of? The whole "realistically the leader of a big and powerful organization wouldn't be doing grunt work or fighting on the front lines" is true and it's why I hate it when our character becomes the leader of a large organization. Leader of a small band of outlaws? Fine. Leader of an elite squad of soldiers? Great. In Mass Effect for example, Shepard was the leader of one ship, one crew, one small group of fighters and was both elite but also had the freedom and story logic to be in the thick of things. Shepard never became a councilor on the Presidium yet continued to fight and not do his councilor duties more than lip service (like the outlander and inquisitor) and making him into that would have been very detrimental to the story IMO. BioWare in recent years seems to want to make all the stakes higher in that the world/galaxy has to be in some huge extinction level threat with some super powerful bombastic villain and make our characters into the most powerful and important and bestest person in the world/galaxy. The new lead up stuff with Theron points to more of the same. They've forgotten that world ending events and lofty social positions aren't necessary for a good story and those things on their own aren't enough to make the story good. Sometimes they can be actively negative.

Asmodesu's Avatar


Asmodesu
12.06.2017 , 10:59 PM | #3114
I still have no clue why Theron fell for my Dark V SI slaughter and enslave everyone character.

I'm going through KotFE/KotET again to get exact dialogue lines rather then memory, but from memory: "I prefer to lead from the front" and afetr Aslylum "They need someone to rally behind" the Alliance only gets really going after you give Arcann and his fleet the middle finger on Asylum. Stood up to him, escaped yes but survived with a big combat ship to boot. This is why Figurehead was always the thing, the people of the Alliance jsut needed someone to rally behind, someone tough enough to give Arcann and his Empire the middle finger and survive to tell about it. The reason we do all the frontline stuff isn't jsut "player character" but "best the Alliance has" we don't do everything for the Alliance in the field, we do the stuff Theron and Lana think we're the best odds at succeeding - like the Star Fortresses etc. or when it's to recruit specific big names (so they can shoehorn in the class companions).
Always a Theron fan!
Member of the Order of Zildrog - Theron Protection Agency
Safaia - a melodramatic sith, Revanite and Wrath

devilkat's Avatar


devilkat
12.07.2017 , 02:01 PM | #3115
[QUOTE=Asmodesu;9490476]I still have no clue why Theron fell for my Dark V SI slaughter and enslave everyone character.

This was one thing I never understood about this particular Bioware title. In all of their other games, you can drive some of your companions away through your actions. In this one, even in the vanilla game, all of them stuck it out, regardless of how they felt about you. Tano Vik, Skage, and Broonmark have no business being with a LS V character, but there they are. Nadia, Vette, and Blizz don't fit with a DS V character. And it doesn't matter what you do to them, either. It doesn't matter how you treat them, all of your LI companions stay. You can be a total jerk to both Lana and Theron during SoR, and start or rekindle a "romance" in Fallen Empire. Then, regardless of what you do to them or choices you make that they disapprove of, they stay with you. That's why I like Koth so much. He's more like the companions from their other titles. If you make too many bad choices, he refuses a romance and leaves. Like a normal person would. Makes me wish they had done more of that. Then, your choices would actually matter.
"My last partner didn't complain nearly this much"
"Your last partner got CRUSHED to death"
"AND NEVER ONCE COMPLAINED ABOUT IT"

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.07.2017 , 03:35 PM | #3116
Quote: Originally Posted by devilkat View Post
That's why I like Koth so much. He's more like the companions from their other titles. If you make too many bad choices, he refuses a romance and leaves. Like a normal person would. Makes me wish they had done more of that. Then, your choices would actually matter.
Same here! Koth having his own opinions and deeply held values that he was actually willing to act on was extremely refreshing to me. It's definitely something I love and wish there was more of in SWtOR "choices have consequences" is super important to me, "not punishing the player" for certain choices is not. If I'm a murdering psycho that kills civilians for fun, good and peaceful characters shouldn't follow me. If I'm a goody two shoes, completely merciful pushover, ruthless and violent DS characters shouldn't follow me. This is also one of the reasons I hate Lana. She hates everything I do and every choice I make, I'm a jerk to her and tell her I don't trust her, etc...and she still acts like a lovesick puppy. The other characters at least act more neutral towards you.

The kind of one-size-fits all narrative makes Theron's betrayal or fake betrayal (he still endangers your life, realistically non force users wouldn't survive jumping out of a speeding train onto jagged rocks) hurt all the more. My Sith Inquisitor (for example) who romanced Theron is 100% LS, offers mercy to every enemy, rejects power offered, helps every civilian he can, and even supported the Republic over the Empire on Iokath for Theron (and because of the Empire's slaving ways) and yet he gets the same treatment as a 100% DS character who murders everyone he can just for fun including his own allies and/or spouse (if married to Kaliyo or Jorgan), oppresses everyone, seizes all power and becomes a dictator, etc...Both get treated like the second person with only a throwaway line of dialogue about the Alliance outgrowing you if you're good.

My friend who I had finally gotten to play and who romanced Theron finally finished Umbara and she's utterly heartbroken and pissed. Also she ended up hating Lana even more than I do lol.

Dracofish's Avatar


Dracofish
12.07.2017 , 04:48 PM | #3117
I agree with the "one size fits all" assessment...however I think we need to take a step back and realize that this technically is a MMO, and not a single-player RPG like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I know it does have that feel due to the cutscenes and conversations, but the budget is entirely different. They kinda have to go with "one size fits all" and for a MMO to inject a romance system into the game? I'll take it, because as far as I know, it's the only MMO that does it.
Me on Ao3! MelissaGT

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.07.2017 , 06:46 PM | #3118
Quote: Originally Posted by Dracofish View Post
I agree with the "one size fits all" assessment...however I think we need to take a step back and realize that this technically is a MMO, and not a single-player RPG like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I know it does have that feel due to the cutscenes and conversations, but the budget is entirely different. They kinda have to go with "one size fits all" and for a MMO to inject a romance system into the game? I'll take it, because as far as I know, it's the only MMO that does it.
I understand that it would have been a ton of work to do so with the original class story companions but we're down to one story, one faction, one set of companions now

Dracofish's Avatar


Dracofish
12.07.2017 , 07:50 PM | #3119
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
I understand that it would have been a ton of work to do so with the original class story companions but we're down to one story, one faction, one set of companions now
Even so, imagine how many permutations of the main story they would need to make in order to fit all the possible choices that people want. That's why characters who could be dead are relegated to paperweight duty...because it would cost too much to make that many versions of the story. Which leads me to believe that they won't introduce a kill option for Theron. Because if they do, he'll be gone from all story content as well, literally leaving one person - Lana.
Me on Ao3! MelissaGT

Farferello's Avatar


Farferello
12.08.2017 , 12:01 PM | #3120
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
Same here! Koth having his own opinions and deeply held values that he was actually willing to act on was extremely refreshing to me. It's definitely something I love and wish there was more of in SWtOR "choices have consequences" is super important to me, "not punishing the player" for certain choices is not. If I'm a murdering psycho that kills civilians for fun, good and peaceful characters shouldn't follow me. If I'm a goody two shoes, completely merciful pushover, ruthless and violent DS characters shouldn't follow me. This is also one of the reasons I hate Lana. She hates everything I do and every choice I make, I'm a jerk to her and tell her I don't trust her, etc...and she still acts like a lovesick puppy. The other characters at least act more neutral towards you.

The kind of one-size-fits all narrative makes Theron's betrayal or fake betrayal (he still endangers your life, realistically non force users wouldn't survive jumping out of a speeding train onto jagged rocks) hurt all the more. My Sith Inquisitor (for example) who romanced Theron is 100% LS, offers mercy to every enemy, rejects power offered, helps every civilian he can, and even supported the Republic over the Empire on Iokath for Theron (and because of the Empire's slaving ways) and yet he gets the same treatment as a 100% DS character who murders everyone he can just for fun including his own allies and/or spouse (if married to Kaliyo or Jorgan), oppresses everyone, seizes all power and becomes a dictator, etc...Both get treated like the second person with only a throwaway line of dialogue about the Alliance outgrowing you if you're good.

My friend who I had finally gotten to play and who romanced Theron finally finished Umbara and she's utterly heartbroken and pissed. Also she ended up hating Lana even more than I do lol.
My Inquisitor sounds exactly the same as yours, and he is heartbroken by Theron's betrayal. Even though I'm 99% sure all this is a double agent stuff doesn't mean he has the same views. All he knows is the man he loved, the first person he even told about his trauma and abuse as a slave in the Empire, has tried to kill him and is acting like he's somehow as bad as the Emperor. That's not something you easily come back from, even when the truth comes out. I worry that they'll gloss over the hurt this inflicted on our character and we'll only get an option to take him back no questions asked, or it'll only be an option to dump/reject/kill him instead. :/

I really adore Koth for someone who stands up for his principals and morals, I just really hate how much they've sidelined him since, and I fear Theron going the same way until it's just the Lana show.