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Why female NPCs should also be betrayers. (Mild Spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why female NPCs should also be betrayers. (Mild Spoilers)

basbaker's Avatar


basbaker
12.05.2017 , 07:29 AM | #1
Iím going to qualify this right away by saying that I have only played the stories from the female perspective, doing straight romances. If my view of events is skewed because of that, feel free to point it out. Just be kind

It seems to me that the straight female lead is the one who is always suffering the most betrayal in SWTOR (and BioWare games in general), although that changes with the availability of Theronís romance for everyone. Prior to that, I remember my SW being betrayed by Quinn, her romance option. The female smuggler who pursues any kind of relationship with Darmas likewise gets betrayed. My first Jedi consular was into Tharan Cedrax, but guess what? She got dumped for a hologram. I honestly donít know if there are any male players who get betrayed by females in their storylines along the way, but Iím pretty sure it doesnít come from any of their romanceable companions.

Anyway, this post isnít to complain about all of that. I enjoy the stories with all their ups and downs. What Iím trying to say is that I feel like people who donít experience these betrayals at the level of someone who romanced the character are getting left out. While the betrayals can be frustrating, puzzling, and even infuriating (Iím looking at you, Quinn!), there is no doubt that they add a depth to the story that makes it memorable.

For example, Iíve read a whole lot of posts discussing the Crisis on Umbara and its plot twists, with lots of players speculating on whether or not they will kill Theron. There is similar discussion over Quinn, with his betrayal still standing, I think, as one of the most polarizing events in the game.

This makes us look deeper into the NPCs in question, trying to second-guess their motives and thought processes, and reveals them to us in a way that we donít see otherwise. I appreciate stories that have a greater focus on the NPCs, because even though my character is the Alliance Commander, Empress, or whatever, she doesnít exist in a vacuum. I know her because I play her. I want to know more about my favorite NPCs that I surround her with.

On the other hand, itís become a thing with BioWare writing to betray, or at least give the short end of the stick, to the straight female/gay male. I wonít drift too far out of SWTOR territory, but I want to point out Anders in DA2, the horrible Alistair choices in Origins, and the way a couple of ME2 romances came to abrupt ends in ME3. Itís a pattern, and one that I think needs to be broken. Not only is it a disservice to the players who choose to romance these characters (usually straight females and gay males), but itís also a disservice to the players who never get to feel that tumultuous aspect of a storyline through their affection for characters who betray them.

Share the love, BioWare. Or I guess in this case, share the angst.

TL/DR
The current Theron story arc is great, because Iím really into his character and I appreciate the attention his story is getting along with my characterís. I think other players Ė straight males/gay females Ė would benefit from having their heart strings plucked the way BioWare always does for their counterparts.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.05.2017 , 10:39 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by basbaker View Post
I honestly donít know if there are any male players who get betrayed by females in their storylines along the way, but Iím pretty sure it doesnít come from any of their romanceable companions.
You mean apart from the Wheezer incident for the Agent?

That's ...
Spoiler


(It's worth running that romance all the way to the end of Chapter X of KotFE at least once, because "tender and touching" is about the last word I'd use for it, unlike pretty much all the others(1).)

(1) Except for the end of the basic companion story at the end of Chapter Three.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
12.05.2017 , 10:46 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
You mean apart from the Wheezer incident for the Agent?

That's ...
Spoiler


(It's worth running that romance all the way to the end of Chapter X of KotFE at least once, because "tender and touching" is about the last word I'd use for it, unlike pretty much all the others(1).)

(1) Except for the end of the basic companion story at the end of Chapter Three.
doesnt she betray you regardless of your gender ? and honestly , compared to others romance..thats not really a betrayer lol
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.05.2017 , 12:57 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by SerraShar View Post
doesnt she betray you regardless of your gender ?
True, but so does the Betrayer of IokathUmbaraCopero.
Spoiler

Spoiler
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
12.05.2017 , 03:29 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SerraShar View Post
doesnt she betray you regardless of your gender ? and honestly , compared to others romance..thats not really a betrayer lol
Quinn also betrays you regardless of your gender. Aaand so does every other example listed here, I think.

As for the topic, I feel that the betrayals listed here all made sense when thinking about the character, so imo the question is, who is Bioware not making female characters that have the kind of personality that they might betray you? Or, when they do, why don't they put them in situations where it makes sense to stab you in the back?

I kind of hope it's just something they haven't thought of, but I can't help to wonder if the current atmosphere is making it difficult. Fictional characters that are women or represent some sort of minority seem to come under a lot of scrutiny, which imo discourages people from making unpleasant female characters -- and betrayers are usually unpleasant.
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basbaker's Avatar


basbaker
12.06.2017 , 06:21 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
Quinn also betrays you regardless of your gender. Aaand so does every other example listed here, I think.

As for the topic, I feel that the betrayals listed here all made sense when thinking about the character, so imo the question is, who is Bioware not making female characters that have the kind of personality that they might betray you? Or, when they do, why don't they put them in situations where it makes sense to stab you in the back?

I kind of hope it's just something they haven't thought of, but I can't help to wonder if the current atmosphere is making it difficult. Fictional characters that are women or represent some sort of minority seem to come under a lot of scrutiny, which imo discourages people from making unpleasant female characters -- and betrayers are usually unpleasant.
You're right - they all betray your character regardless of gender. What I was getting at is that the ones I mentioned are most likely to be romanced by straight women and gay men, which I think gives the betrayals more impact for those specific players. I do seriously wonder why it's never the female NPC involved in a romance with a male character that behaves this way - Kaliyo is a stretch for me, btw, because you find out about her activities and resolve the situation with her firmly on your side in the course of one encounter.

Maybe you're right about the minorities being more scrutinized these days, with people just waiting to read something into the most innocent of actions. Maybe I'm reading into things! Or maybe not, because I can think of plenty of games where antagonists are women.

Would straight guys and gay women have more of a problem being betrayed by their romance option than straight women and gay guys? I have no idea. Like you, I hope it's just something they haven't thought of.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.06.2017 , 06:59 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
Fictional characters that are women or represent some sort of minority seem to come under a lot of scrutiny, which imo discourages people from making unpleasant female characters -- and betrayers are usually unpleasant.
Discourages? Yes. Prevents? No. Not in this game, anyway.
* Darth Lachris (a better match for the male SW than either Vette or DSJ, but in no way a nice person)
* Darth Zash
* Leontyne Saresh
* Vaylin
* Kaliyo (she isn't what anyone sane would call *pleasant*).
* DSJ
* the Lady of Pain (one of the Imp class stories on Tatooine)(1)

(1) Not to be confused with the Mistress of Pain, the true name of the being commonly called RNGesus.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

FarSide's Avatar


FarSide
01.02.2018 , 04:36 PM | #8
Female NPCs betraying you used to be Bioware's thing. It happened in both Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR, before they got on a kick of party members dying instead. It pops up again in Dragon Age and Mass Effect somewhat, but those are depending choices you make in the game and if you don't complete loyalty missions.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.02.2018 , 07:40 PM | #9
Not sure I'd count Tharan as a betrayer. One of the options starting off that possible romance is "What about Holiday."
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
01.03.2018 , 01:05 PM | #10
The problem with saying "let lesbians have their heartstrings plucked the same way" - I would entirely agree with you IF there were more than one F/F love interest in the game. Making the only F/F NPC a betrayer would be pretty cr***y. I don't want to hear "well, but for gay men..." because it's actually possible to play through the story without one of them betraying you at all (easy peasy - don't blow up the Spire. Two convo choices) and the other looks as though he might be undercover and saving the day.

Also, three points:

1. Every traitor is a traitor regardless of the player's gender or if they are being romanced - so men and lesbians playing through the SW story get shafted by Quinn, too, for instance. No, it might not be a romantic thing, but if one's developed a rapport with that character it's still a kick in the teeth.

2. There have been several female love interests who *have* betrayed: Kailyo, Ashara (who tells the Jedi the player is going to be somewhere and has them ambushed) and one could argue Elara Dorne if the player chooses to side with the Empire on Iokath.

3. There ARE many female NPCs who have betrayed during the game. Off the top of my head:
- Lord Zash, which can have a huge impact on the player because she is their central quest giver and up until that point, she is presented as a benevolent, kindly mentor.
- SCORPIO. whose betrayal is so huge that it nearly takes down the entire Alliance.
- Senya. Yes, you can save her but the fact remains that she screws you over in KOTFE 16 by rescuing the person you tried to kill.
- The woman from House Cortez in the Agent story