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dps should not have guard

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
dps should not have guard

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
11.23.2017 , 04:49 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Wouldn't try to use Mass taunt on a dps spec, it's your threath drop if you're not in tank spec
For PvP, which is the topic of the discussion, Mass Taunt (as well as single target taunt) has the same effect for Tanks and DPS, as in decreasing damage dealt of the player taunted unless towards the player who taunted. Sure, the defensive effect that AoE taunts for certain classes is helpful as a defensive cooldown, however, most players including DPS use it basically on cooldown for the extra protection and damage decrease on enemy players, and that is definitely something people should continue doing.

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

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Is there any other reason for a pvp'er to sub?
There's the obvious reason to help financially support the game.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
11.23.2017 , 05:20 PM | #32
Of course, for me, I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective.

I've got a "hybrid tank" that I enjoy. I know I'm not going to main-tank an Ops boss, or even a Master flashpoint. For me and a companion, or to perform certain functions in raids, it has its place.

The specific instance of using this character I'm thinking of, was when I was involved in a group hunting World Bosses. One of them summons adds at regular intervals. My job was to DPS the boss... but when the adds dropped, I mass taunted them, popped my defensive cooldowns, and tanked the adds until DPS could AOE them down... and then I went back to DPS on the boss.

I'd really like to be able to choose my own stance, and I've also posted a thread about it here. When I'm DPS on the boss, I'd use Lightning Charge (which is default for Hatred Assassins) but when I needed to take on Tanking duties, I'd switch to Dark Charge (which is the Assassin's tanking mode).

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
11.23.2017 , 05:28 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
Of course, for me, I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective.
The specific instance of using this character I'm thinking of, was when I was involved in a group hunting World Bosses. One of them summons adds at regular intervals. My job was to DPS the boss... but when the adds dropped, I mass taunted them, popped my defensive cooldowns, and tanked the adds until DPS could AOE them down... and then I went back to DPS on the boss. .
Pretty sure you didn\t mass taunt any adds in hatred spec. Mass mind control doesn't work as a taunt for dps specs in pvp, it's a threath drop

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
11.23.2017 , 05:28 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
Of course, for me, I'm looking at this from a PvE perspective.

I've got a "hybrid tank" that I enjoy. I know I'm not going to main-tank an Ops boss, or even a Master flashpoint. For me and a companion, or to perform certain functions in raids, it has its place.

The specific instance of using this character I'm thinking of, was when I was involved in a group hunting World Bosses. One of them summons adds at regular intervals. My job was to DPS the boss... but when the adds dropped, I mass taunted them, popped my defensive cooldowns, and tanked the adds until DPS could AOE them down... and then I went back to DPS on the boss.

I'd really like to be able to choose my own stance, and I've also posted a thread about it here. When I'm DPS on the boss, I'd use Lightning Charge (which is default for Hatred Assassins) but when I needed to take on Tanking duties, I'd switch to Dark Charge (which is the Assassin's tanking mode).
Forgive me for this but in PvE I do not miss people being able to choose spec. It a nice not having a vigi guardian attempt to convince me they're a tank because they swapped stance to soresu. Or defense guardians saying they're dps because they swapped to shii-cho. Swtor simply doesn't work that way. I maintain 3 gear sets on all my guardians, a dps set, a tank set, and a skank set strictly for PvP tanking. For tanking I'm defense spec, for dps spec I'm vigi.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
11.23.2017 , 05:35 PM | #35
I dont have an issue with this, just as i dont DPS specs having heals, or heals having damaging skills. But, like DPS heals the effectiveness of the guard should be reduced for none tank specs.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
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LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
11.24.2017 , 04:49 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Pretty sure you didn\t mass taunt any adds in hatred spec. Mass mind control doesn't work as a taunt for dps specs in pvp, it's a threath drop


ermehgerd. Nubbed it.
...now, of course, I need to go and reread my abilities.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
11.24.2017 , 06:56 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
...now, of course, I need to go and reread my abilities.
Always, always, always an excellent idea. Read your ability descriptions BEFORE you need to know how they work.

Case in point; Reyelria'kinth, my first Lightning Sorc, arrived at the entrance to Black Talon at level 16, some time before 4.0 came out (and possibly before 3.0, I don't remember exactly when this was). For complicated and totally invalid reasons she is still somewhere on Balmorra, waiting to jump in a vault full of toxic waste through possibly the only horizontal phase wall in the game...

There was a group of three lowbies hoping to find someone to make them four, and they found me. Off we went. Me at level 16 and them at levels 14, 12, and 10. I think it was a Mara, a Jugg, and a BH of some sort, in no particular order.

Anyway, on my way, I hadn't had the opportunity to gather enough comms to get a full set of decent mods on the fleet, so I had a mix of junk and worse for gear, but evidently so did they, because I noticed a tendency for mobs to run or gun for me, but they were all dying pretty quick, so it was hard to be sure.

Then we triggered the bonus boss, and he tunnelled *me*. And had I read my ability descriptions? Of course NOT. So in the middle of a fight with a bonus boss, with junk gear and my health in freefall, I mostly stopped fighting so I could read my tooltips and ... oh, there's a bubble that will protect me, castcastcast, and ... oh, there's a heal spell, castcastcast ... goodness, that feels better, fightfightfighthealfight killed it.

Not doing that again, thanks.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
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> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
11.24.2017 , 03:04 PM | #38
Tanking a dungeon in WoW as a noobie Paladin. I got a power that makes me invulnerable... I'm running low on health so I pop it. Of course, it also drops all my Threat (which makes sense; the mobs can't hurt me, so they'll go find someone they can). Oh well...

I think my big problem here is I've got a Kinetic Shadow, so I figure I know how to play an Assassin... but, DPS != Tank.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
11.26.2017 , 03:59 PM | #39
Just a followup....

Reading Mass Mind Control, specifically on my Hatred Assassin... the first two sentences are all about how this ability is a Taunt.
...as long as you're using Dark Charge.

Third line down, it does say it's a threat drop... in Lightning Charge. Last line, it mentions the PvP utility (which again, is a Taunt, because it reduces enemy DPS unless they attack the Assassin; this appears to be independent of Charge).

So.... I would definitely say there's a problem here.

1) There's a tool-tip fail, in that the functionality of this ability is described as being a Taunt. Of course, the fine print tells me it isn't... but would it be so terribly difficult to have Spec Specific tool tips?
(or)
2) I like the idea of running this character as a hybrid. Having the ability to choose between Lightning and Dark charge would let me tailor my play to better match my situation.

...I'm all for the 2nd option; let players play how they want to play... although, I understand some people would prefer option 1; continue to remove hybrid play style and continue to homogenize the game play experience.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.31.2017 , 06:55 PM | #40
I was thinking about this the other day... and I had a notion.

Rather than make the your Form, Charge (etc) an ability you can select... meaning Lightning vs. Dark for Assassins, or Ion vs. Plasma for Vanguards, etc... make your form match your gear. Like... if you are a Vanguard, as a DPS you probably want a Focus. Maybe you like being a bit tankier, so you carry a Shield as well. I'm proposing that if you equip a Shield your abilities which are "Tank" abilities function as Tank abilities (they are taunts, they generate threat, the protect allies, etc). If you equip a Generator, your "Tank" abilities function as DPS abilities (they are threat drops, aggro transfers).

So, for example... if you have a Focus or Generator equipped, your Guard would transfer a portion of your generated Threat to the Guarded target, and transfer 2% of the damage they take to you (you help them perform their tanking function). And, your single target and mass target Taunts become aggro dumps. In PvP, only damage would be transfered.

Meanwhile, if you have a Shield equipped, Guard reduces the guarded alie's threat generation, and reduces the damage they take. Your Taunt, single and mass, taunt targets.

Obviously, I'd still want a spec that's specialized for DPS to want to use a Focus/Generator and do more Damage... and of course, a Tank should use a Shield and generate more Threat and have more Durability. I'd also like for the tool tips to be reflective of your actual spec (or in this case, what your equipped gear is). Previously, because I only skimmed my Mass Taunt (as a DPS Assassin) I assumed it was a Mass Taunt (because that's how the ability reads, at a glance).