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Character Appearance should not require effort

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Character Appearance should not require effort

Kotli's Avatar


Kotli
12.30.2011 , 07:25 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by illgot View Post
ySnip
-No set bonus

-No augment slots

-No PvP bonus


Snip

Crafted critted Orange gear has augment slots and there are PvP stats on some mods (not sure if it just crit crafted mods though).

TBH there needs to be a colour over-ride item to stop it becoming Star Wars the Clown Republic.

Ohoni's Avatar


Ohoni
12.30.2011 , 07:35 AM | #32
Quote:
Pretty much the gear system in DCUO... Any piece of gear you picked up, the look would be added to the database, and then you could pick from it at will. While it did offer a lot of flexibility. it really did remove the value of the gear looks you acquired. If you have them available all the time, then after a while, it does not matter if they are there or not. That's my impression.
I don't know about that, I mean, on one of my mains I might have hundreds of different styles in total, and perhaps only use one combination of them for months on end, but I highly value those pieces that I do have on, and it usually did take some effort to acquire most of them in the first place. But like this holiday season two of my characters got this nifty Christmas sweater, so I threw that on instead of their standard tops (which took all of ten seconds and did not involve any transfer of funds), and then I took another character and equipped a few pieces of the new "Holiday Elf" set that fit the rest of her look, then recolored a few pieces of her wardrobe from white/light blue/yellow to white with tasteful red highlights. It was fun and easy to do, I can't imagine even bothering under SWtOR's current system, too much hassle.

It's worth noting that the sweaters were a rare drop, only available during the holidays, which none of my other characters have, and the other "elf" pieces had to be purchased using tokens gained from holiday themed activities, so acquiring them required a certain amount of effort, but the point is, once I own them, I can do whatever I want with them.

Quote:
Except that in an MMO, appearance IS usually one of the most premium things available. Everyone wants to LOOK cool :-p
And as I've noted, acquiring cool looks, fine, that can be difficult, time consuming costly, what have you. But once you have it, it should be YOURS, you should be able to put it on, take it off, whatever, and that shouldn't impact your gameplay. If you get a cool looking level 25 blue armor, then by level 30 you shouldn't be forced to choose between continuing to have obsolete stats in that slot, or having to look for some alternate version of that armor, IF it's available, AND the stats to power it, when you already have that version right there, and you already have a stronger blue/green armor that you picked up automatically as you leveled.

Once you have an appearance, you should be able to do what you want with it, no hassle, no cost.

Quote:
Crafted critted Orange gear has augment slots and there are PvP stats on some mods (not sure if it just crit crafted mods though).
I still have yet to hear a single confirmed critted orange, so far they seem to be only a rumor, while people have reported making dozens of the things without a single augment slot, which indicates that at best, the rate of crit on these things is far too low to consider their existence to be statistically significant.

Synthine's Avatar


Synthine
12.30.2011 , 07:41 AM | #33
i started read posts then just stopped. How long has this game been out??

Everquest: 1999
Star Wars Galaxies: 2000
Dark Age of Camelot: 2001
Dark Age of Camelot: 2001
Everquest 2: 2004
World of Warcraft: 2004
City of Heros: 2005
Guild Wars: 2005
Warhammer: 2008
Age of Conan: 2008
Aion: 2009

only to name a few

THIS GAME 10 DAYS AGO.

Just play any game for a long time and they will just start handing out any gear you want (ie wow). But really, let the game get into motion and let bioware do its thing. There is a reason why this game set records. Sit back and enjoy the ride man...just enjoy the ride.

Mattlex's Avatar


Mattlex
12.30.2011 , 08:03 AM | #34
Aion's system was quite good. You'd take two pieces or armour to a NPC one that looks cool and one that has the stats (both pieces have to be equipable by your class). You pay the NPC some moolah and then he makes the gear with the stats have the appearance of the cool looking gear.

This would be a nice system to have here as I grew very fond of my last Jedi Robes but had to give them up

Or they could go down the lines of DCUO where gear and style were completely seperate. When you collected new gear and equipped it you would gain that new style in your style list, after that any equipment you had could be changed to look like that style by selecting it in the style tab. The benefit of this is it also added value to the gear as people may not want to buy the gear for its stats but would buy it for its Style.

Either way I hope they do add some way to customise the appearance of gear in the future.

Ohoni's Avatar


Ohoni
12.30.2011 , 08:14 AM | #35
Quote:
Just play any game for a long time and they will just start handing out any gear you want (ie wow). But really, let the game get into motion and let bioware do its thing. There is a reason why this game set records. Sit back and enjoy the ride man...just enjoy the ride.
What is your point? I'm not asking for anything that is a feature of a mature game, this is a feature that plenty of games have launched with, and that has been requested of this game since early in beta. I'm just stressing that the compromises they developed are not sufficient to the task, and they need to make implementing a complete solution one of their priorities.

Pandabutt's Avatar


Pandabutt
12.30.2011 , 08:22 AM | #36
We have an appearance system coming in the next few months. It may not be what your wanting, but it will let us choose the colors of our gear. This will eliminate the mismatched color issues with armor sets that differ only in color patterns.

There is NO REASON TO GO TO A NEW SYSTEM. We have customizables, so what if you have to put effort into upkeep on their stats. How is that any different than the upkeep for your "underlying armor" of other games? In all honesty, we have the better system. In other games you will find people selling the high stat items at crazy high prices then turn around and charge you an arm and a leg for some junk item that has the looks you want. With the system we have now, you buy one piece then fill it with mods. With mods being easily obtained from commendation vendors or crafted yourself the costs are genuinely low.

If we were to get a system like you are suggesting now, then all customizable armor pieces would become virtually useless, no reason to have more than one style to them since no one would ever have it shown, may as well just be a black and white checkard jumpsuit at that point.

Accept what we have, and see the advantages it offers you. Once you stop complaining and take a good long look at it you'll see what the rest of us keep trying to tell you. What we have now is a better system.

Hitomo_x's Avatar


Hitomo_x
12.30.2011 , 09:24 AM | #37
just let them do it there own way ... I liked the cosmetic system in lotro

but they got to far by allowing even heavy cosmetic armor to be used
by classes wich couldnt wear heavy at all ...

its agood system if the look you are forced to by your gear becomes to clownesque
but it remains to be abstract and disconnected from the game or lore ...

I think the approach in swtor is good and shouldnt be scraped in favour
to one of the established systems from other mmos ...

I tzhink the main issue here is, that if you char posses a real and a cosmetic
outfit it just doubles the data load in the database and on the bandwith ...
that was also the reason why in lotro cosmetic outfits in PvP are disabled,
to reduce lag ...

greetz

Ohoni's Avatar


Ohoni
12.30.2011 , 10:32 AM | #38
Quote:
There is NO REASON TO GO TO A NEW SYSTEM. We have customizables, so what if you have to put effort into upkeep on their stats. How is that any different than the upkeep for your "underlying armor" of other games?
Is that a serious question? Because the game already drops "under armor." If there were an appearance customization system, then you could wear your very best gear at all times, whether you got it from a drop, a reward, crafting, whether its stats were hard-locked or custom. If there were an appearance customization system then ALL loot would have value so long as either it provided better stats than what you had, or looked better than what you had, since you wouldn't have to discard ugly but stronger gear, or pretty but weaker gear.

Quote:
In other games you will find people selling the high stat items at crazy high prices then turn around and charge you an arm and a leg for some junk item that has the looks you want.
Yes, and it all balances out into a good economy, everything has a value and people charge what the market will sustain, everyone wins.

Quote:
With the system we have now, you buy one piece then fill it with mods. With mods being easily obtained from commendation vendors or crafted yourself the costs are genuinely low.
As easy as it is to acquire mods for oranges, it's just as easy to acquire standard gear to wear under your appearance, especially if you're Armormech or Synthweave, which is as it should be.

Quote:
If we were to get a system like you are suggesting now, then all customizable armor pieces would become virtually useless, no reason to have more than one style to them since no one would ever have it shown, may as well just be a black and white checkard jumpsuit at that point.
While it's true that the appearance attached to any individual piece of gear would be less important, the styles themselves would be equally as important. You might buy, for example, a social hat, and only equip it in the style slot, or use it to learn the style, or whatever mechanism they employ, but it would still have value in that role. Now the value of customizable gear over standard gear is in its versatility. While standard gear is take it as it is, customizable gear can be tweaked and upgraded. You can replace mods to make it stronger, or more suited to your play style. Get a piece with great armoring but that you have a better Enhancement for? You can raise it's stats. Does it offer +def instead of +crit? Slot in a +crit mod instead.

You can shape it how you want it, "customize" it, as it were, which is the entire point. It can also be easier to take a level 25 armor and upgrade it using mods at levels 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30, rather than buying an entirely new armor piece at each level, or waiting several levels with no upgrades at all, falling behind the curve. And of course, while an Armormech or Synthweave might have an easier time simply replacing his base armor with new models, a Cybertech or Artificer might be better off upgrading oranges, given his available options.

Quote:
Accept what we have, and see the advantages it offers you. Once you stop complaining and take a good long look at it you'll see what the rest of us keep trying to tell you. What we have now is a better system.
Or, I know as much, if not more than you do, and still disagree with you.

Quote:
I think the approach in swtor is good and shouldnt be scraped in favour
to one of the established systems from other mmos ...
They don't have to copy anyone else, I've merely provided examples of other games that do a better job than what we have now. I totally don't mind if SWtOR continues to have a system different than any other game out there, so long as it gets the job done. The current system, for all it's strengths, does NOT get the job done. It only goes half way, and needs to do more, with less.

Quote:
I tzhink the main issue here is, that if you char posses a real and a cosmetic
outfit it just doubles the data load in the database and on the bandwith ...
It shouldn't. The game would only need to store in active memory what the appearance is of the appearance slotted item, not the stats, since they would be irrelevant so long as it's slotted. For every other player, unless they were using "inspect," the stats of your gear would not need to be sent to their client. If a slotting based system would be too system-intensive, they could instead use a DCUO style of wardrobe, in which case the stats of the "style" gear wouldn't even be a factor, as once you'd "learned" a given style, you could discard the item it was originally attached to completely if you wished. In that case, you'd only be loading a tiny fragment of extra data to the character, the name of the model you were using. Plenty of other games transmit WAY more data, in far more action-paced PvP combat.

EdratLightindark's Avatar


EdratLightindark
12.30.2011 , 12:36 PM | #39
Easy fix (maybe not for the devs). Just make an appearance tab. The items you put in the appearance tab will show over whatever armor you are wearing, the stats on em do not count. This way you can look however you want. It will not affect crafters in any other way. Except they can make more money making "junk" clothing/armor and listing them on the galactic market specifically for appearance. SWG had this and it worked out great. It gave everybody a unique look that could be changed at any time.