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A ToTaL Refund


orangenee's Avatar


orangenee
10.30.2017 , 06:30 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
And I thought I spent the most on this game
Get your wallet out brah. EA needs YOU and the entire contents of your bank account.
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merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
10.30.2017 , 06:37 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by orangenee View Post
Get your wallet out brah. EA needs YOU and the entire contents of your bank account.
nah I went over to a "safe regime" now.
Merovejec
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casirabit's Avatar


casirabit
10.30.2017 , 07:05 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Dayshadow View Post
Legally binding what exactly? Them saying this is how you can use the software? Them saying this is what you are getting into? It's just a statement. Nothing more. No company can simply write themselves a "get out of jail card" and absolve themselves from liability. If that were the case lawsuits would be impossible as everyone would do this for everything. "Hey, this phone might explode and incarnate your ear and you agree to these conditions by clicking this box." No, the company doesn't get to immunize itself from prosecution nor can it make its own laws. Especially after the item has already been purchased and used. Could you imagine buying a car and then when you start it up you have to click a document on the touchscreen stating the car may or may not work properly and that the engine may or may not explode in order to start the engines and leave the lot. That's basically what you're saying EA can do. If EA is found at fault they can and will be sued. And if they are offering a product that is unplayable they will lose and have to refund remaining subscription money. It's just a technical fact that they knew the results when they made the change. They knew they were effectively kicking APAC and some west coast players out of the game. No TOS is going to save them. That's like saying I can get Direct TV and the service is out all the time, even when it's sunny out, and they would be immune from prosecution if there was a TOS stating "Maybe you'll have service. Maybe you won't." You can't just make up whatever rules you want.

It doesn't have to "hold up" because it would never be brought up. And you're not paying attention. If a game is bought in a household of 5, how do you know who clicked the box? How do you know a little kid didn't click it as is the case with many games? Can you bind a minor to a contract? That someone clicked it does not inform you who clicked it. As opposed to something where you have to input your SSN and other pertinent details; something that is backed by federal law and punishable as a crime like your IRS example.

It would be a class action lawsuit. No individual is going to sue. Even if they did you can include that EA compensate you for your legal bills in the claim. But first the person needs to be direct and request the refund first and EA needs to deny them.
Except for one thing, while they may sue for not being able to play now, they cannot sue for time they already played on the game, which is what the OP wants. She/He wants to sue for all the time she/he played on the game, which is wrong. They might be able to find a class action suit for time after the change, but not before and most of the money that is gotten from class action lawsuits goes to the lawyers. The petitioners on a class action lawsuit gets very little. Then they would have to prove they couldn't play and then they would have to hire expert witness to prove the point and expert witness can run from $1000 on up an hour depending on the expert witness and the testimony you need for the case. Then you would have to prove your losses, which on a video game, is hard to prove. The foreseeable damages could be the inability to play going forward and then the Court would state that they could have mitigated their damages by cancelling their accounts and therefore mitigated their damages as such. The courts would not give punitive damages from a video game. So the best the OP could get from the Courts would be maybe the last month or two of subscriptions, not the entire time the OP played.
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Dayshadow's Avatar


Dayshadow
10.30.2017 , 10:57 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post
Except for one thing, while they may sue for not being able to play now, they cannot sue for time they already played on the game, which is what the OP wants.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...62#post9455362

The OP is over emotional and I pointed this out in my first reply to him/her. I'm not talking about what the OP wants. I'm talking about where EA is actually liable.
SWTOR gameplay edited like a television series

Sinhammer's Avatar


Sinhammer
10.30.2017 , 12:07 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by SaerethDL View Post
While we're at it, I want the money back I invested in my ex-wife too.
I was thinking about all the money I invested in my ex-gf until I saw this post.

*takes hat off and mourns for Saereth*
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
----Darth Wolfhammer Hellstorm of Star Forge----

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
10.30.2017 , 12:38 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Dayshadow View Post
Legally binding what exactly? Them saying this is how you can use the software? Them saying this is what you are getting into? It's just a statement. Nothing more. No company can simply write themselves a "get out of jail card" and absolve themselves from liability. If that were the case lawsuits would be impossible as everyone would do this for everything. "Hey, this phone might explode and incarnate your ear and you agree to these conditions by clicking this box." No, the company doesn't get to immunize itself from prosecution nor can it make its own laws. Especially after the item has already been purchased and used. Could you imagine buying a car and then when you start it up you have to click a document on the touchscreen stating the car may or may not work properly and that the engine may or may not explode in order to start the engines and leave the lot. That's basically what you're saying EA can do. If EA is found at fault they can and will be sued. And if they are offering a product that is unplayable they will lose and have to refund remaining subscription money. It's just a technical fact that they knew the results when they made the change. They knew they were effectively kicking APAC and some west coast players out of the game. No TOS is going to save them. That's like saying I can get Direct TV and the service is out all the time, even when it's sunny out, and they would be immune from prosecution if there was a TOS stating "Maybe you'll have service. Maybe you won't." You can't just make up whatever rules you want.

It doesn't have to "hold up" because it would never be brought up. And you're not paying attention. If a game is bought in a household of 5, how do you know who clicked the box? How do you know a little kid didn't click it as is the case with many games? Can you bind a minor to a contract? That someone clicked it does not inform you who clicked it. As opposed to something where you have to input your SSN and other pertinent details; something that is backed by federal law and punishable as a crime like your IRS example.

It would be a class action lawsuit. No individual is going to sue. Even if they did you can include that EA compensate you for your legal bills in the claim. But first the person needs to be direct and request the refund first and EA needs to deny them.
Any company can write up any documentation they want, as long as it adheres to federal law. Lawsuits can also be files for nearly any reason, as well.

Having said that, lawyers are tasked with writing up paperwork that covers all possible reasons why someone might sue the company. These stipulations typically are very thorough, and cover a plethora of different things (typically the most obvious) that a person may sue against. Unfortunately, they cannot cover the millions of possible variations of scenerios that may be the focus of a lawsuit, especially the off-the-wall stuff like "a phone exploding in someones ear," especially with it not being something that they could reasonably expect to ever happen. Lawsuits will typically focus on elements that are left out of the TOS, but the ambiguous language that the lawyers use makes it very difficult to find these "hidden gems" unless they actually happen to a customer.

That said, yes, a car company can force their drivers to "click a bbutton" releasing them of any blame in the event of an accident, but laws of supply and demand also lead car companies to limit these liabilities in contract so they will actually sell their products. Even BW posted a TOS, and players must weigh the decision to invest their time into a game that may never reward them in any other way than fun, woth potential that said player may walk away empty handed in the future - and they still click ok to the TOS. Obviously the demand for the product outweighs the rules. Would you click the box if the TOS said you had to give up rights to your first born child? Would you have even read the legal jargon in the first place? Would BW have sold any of their game if that was the cost? Afew curious questions to say the least.

TLDR - companies can make whatever rules they want, and require anything of their customers, and be exonerated of any liability if they want to, but it would take a lot of lawyers to compile billions of stipulations, and at the end of it, the consumer would still need to decide if the game is worth accepting the stipulations.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
10.30.2017 , 12:40 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinhammer View Post
I was thinking about all the money I invested in my ex-gf until I saw this post.

*takes hat off and mourns for Saereth*
It was clearly worth it at the time, no refunds for you.
#Arcannite
For The Empire

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
10.30.2017 , 12:47 PM | #78
As for the claim that you cant determine who actually clicked the TOS, so that means nobody is liable, part of the TOS typically will state that if an account if compromised, or multiple accounts suspected of being compromised, BW reserves the right to delete the accounts. So if nobody at a specific IP address comes forward to admit to agreeing to the TOS, then anyone who has played from that IP address could be considered compromised, and subject to disciplinary action, even so far as to have the accounts deleted. Playing that card would negate any accomplishments or progress gained in the fiest place, and remove ownership of the account(s) altogether.

Dayshadow's Avatar


Dayshadow
10.30.2017 , 04:30 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
Any company can write up any documentation they want, as long as it adheres to federal law. Lawsuits can also be files for nearly any reason, as well.

Having said that, lawyers are tasked with writing up paperwork that covers all possible reasons why someone might sue the company. These stipulations typically are very thorough, and cover a plethora of different things (typically the most obvious) that a person may sue against. Unfortunately, they cannot cover the millions of possible variations of scenerios that may be the focus of a lawsuit, especially the off-the-wall stuff like "a phone exploding in someones ear," especially with it not being something that they could reasonably expect to ever happen. Lawsuits will typically focus on elements that are left out of the TOS, but the ambiguous language that the lawyers use makes it very difficult to find these "hidden gems" unless they actually happen to a customer.

That said, yes, a car company can force their drivers to "click a bbutton" releasing them of any blame in the event of an accident, but laws of supply and demand also lead car companies to limit these liabilities in contract so they will actually sell their products. Even BW posted a TOS, and players must weigh the decision to invest their time into a game that may never reward them in any other way than fun, woth potential that said player may walk away empty handed in the future - and they still click ok to the TOS. Obviously the demand for the product outweighs the rules. Would you click the box if the TOS said you had to give up rights to your first born child? Would you have even read the legal jargon in the first place? Would BW have sold any of their game if that was the cost? Afew curious questions to say the least.

TLDR - companies can make whatever rules they want, and require anything of their customers, and be exonerated of any liability if they want to, but it would take a lot of lawyers to compile billions of stipulations, and at the end of it, the consumer would still need to decide if the game is worth accepting the stipulations.
No, you cannot. (Well, you can write up whatever you like, but that doesn't mean it has any weight) You cannot absolve yourself from unlawful business practices by stating in a TOS that you reserve the right to practice unlawful business practices. I repeat, you cannot absolve yourself from wrongdoing. The law is the law. You can't legally break the law by writing yourself a letter saying you can break the law. All a TOS does is stipulate what you are getting with said product and how you can use said product. You can't sell a game then lock me out of it for no reason and be immune from liability if I want my money back. If I'm paying for something the seller must provide a reasonable quality service unless they explicitly stated BEFORE purchase that the product is unreliable and you buy it with the reasonable expectation that it may not work. Unless being so laggy that you cannot do PVP, raids, etc. is stipulated as part of the deal it isn't even a conversation. And again even if it did it's too late. The product has been purchased. It's used at the point you get to a TOS. You can't spring a trap AFTER the purchase and expect any court to accept it. You can't be sold a car and AFTER having already paid the money for it be told the engine is crap and may explode on startup. I'm not sure what wacky reality you people come from. So when you decline the TOS who is going to give you that full refund or your open used game whose codes are compromised?

If a player purchased a 12 month subscription the day before the patch and now isn't afforded a reasonable gaming experience they are within their rights to demand a refund fro the unused time. They would have to issue a new TOS stating that your lag issue isn't their problem and those who decline will still be owed that refund.
SWTOR gameplay edited like a television series

Dayshadow's Avatar


Dayshadow
10.30.2017 , 04:38 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As for the claim that you cant determine who actually clicked the TOS, so that means nobody is liable, part of the TOS typically will state that if an account if compromised, or multiple accounts suspected of being compromised, BW reserves the right to delete the accounts. So if nobody at a specific IP address comes forward to admit to agreeing to the TOS, then anyone who has played from that IP address could be considered compromised, and subject to disciplinary action, even so far as to have the accounts deleted. Playing that card would negate any accomplishments or progress gained in the fiest place, and remove ownership of the account(s) altogether.
There is no card to play. A TOS will not be used as a defense. And I'm not talking about people feigning ignorance on who clicked it. The point I'm making is that a minor could click the button. A minor cannot consent to any contract (not that a TOS is a binding contract).

But going off of what you said, hypothetically...
At this function APAC players are quitting regardless. So EA can delete the account all they want. They just better issue that refund while they're at it. And since the account is "compromised" I guess they need to refund every dime spent, even prior to the serve change as the entire history of the account and ALL purchases ever made are fraudulent, right?
SWTOR gameplay edited like a television series