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Conquest as a game feature will die for all but the largest guilds

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Conquest as a game feature will die for all but the largest guilds

xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
10.06.2017 , 11:25 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
That is a correct statement but since you don't know what this upgrade will mean, it's a useless point to make. They are going to tackle Conquest in 2018. Right now they're in the middle of preparing for a big server merge.

I just think this thread is ill-timed, that's all.
I'll maintain the position that less-than-mega guilds will experience profound dismay after the merge, and perhaps even after any conquest modification months later in 2018, if nothing is done to make the system more equitable.
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Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
10.06.2017 , 11:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
I'll maintain the position that less-than-mega guilds will experience profound dismay after the merge, and perhaps even after any conquest modification months later in 2018, if nothing is done to make the system more equitable.
That's cool. I'm just suggesting bringing this up again after the server merges are done and 5.6 hits the live servers. By that time it becomes relevant for BW again and well by then this thread will be long-forgotten.
Don't freak out, I'm just here by the grace of a referal. Nothing more.

bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
10.06.2017 , 12:30 PM | #23
I haven't done conquest since the first couple weeks, so years. But I feel there are some pieces in place that could start to make it interesting.

For example combine the D/L victory state timer and D/L world boss concept with some tweaks.

I'd be interested if there was a randomly timed event (like D/L victory state), spawning a miniboss on a contested planet behind an instance in a known location. The first guild (based on group lead) to kill said boss gets the conquest points, all others to kill within the timer get something else. This could be randomly occurring (so the only benefit to a massive guild would be if they had 24 hour coverage), the instance would limit the group size (so multiple groups in a massive guild only have a slight advantage if the fight is difficult), can't really be grinded in your sleep or with logged out alts.

Then add on some basic things that will probably be even among all guilds. Like the 1x credit for clearing an operation and only allow one time credit to the guild's score (not every player completing). So a smaller guild could divide and conquer and compete with a larger guild. These would mostly even out but ensures guilds participate in everything.

Anyway I'm sure that can be critiqued but there has to be design with a minimum guild size in mind and minimal benefit to being larger. Guild victory achievements could still be tied to individual goals with the same or similar current rules.

Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
10.06.2017 , 01:56 PM | #24
It is true, conquest sucks for mid and small guilds and will likely get worse because I'm 95% sure the "upgrade" they do to it will severely sabbotage small guilds, and also agree that the server merges will kill the conquest game for most guilds because they will be squeezing too many guilds into that list.

They need to make changes that will make conquest attractive for guilds of all sizes in a fair way. Maybe:

- Make conquest gains or which top10 list your guild is on based on average daily activity. So if you have a tiny guild with 5 friends in it and they put in a total of 20hrs a week, they'd be competing with a guild with 1000 members that only has 1 person logging in for a total of 20hrs a week. Neither would be competing with a large guild that has 300 characters logging in for a total of 6000hrs a week. So if all 3 invaded Ilum, there would be 2 different top 10 lists for Ilum. This is just the start of an idea, obviously this can be tweaked to be weighted by other factors instead of just conquest/hour, but it is a start (so you do not have to earn conquest 100% of logged in time etc). It doesn't punish big guilds, and it lets all guilds participate. How many divisions of top 10 lists would be determined.

OR
- Every week have ALL the planets to invade (how many are there like 12?) with some sort of "profit sharing" type factor for guilds with less active hours per week.

Conquest is a good motivator for players, but it is terrible right now. What I mean is, it is fun to log in and contribute to your guild gains, even more so in a small/medium guild because your contribution is a huge percentage. But guilds with only 5 or 10 ppl on at a time during peak time cannot be participants really. Yes that means guilds of 1000 population also, some of them do not have more than 10 on at a time due to the bleeding of player activity.

And big guilds that compete well in conquest isn't fun for players currently either. Because the big guild FORCES the member to do conquest or get kicked. If I wanted a job I'd stay at work, when I'm on the game I want to do what I WANT TO DO. People should stay away from jerk guilds like that. A better conquest design would allow for more player fun with conquest in both the small and large guild cases.

Simple revamps could fix it, but instead they will completely go the opposite and make it worse by making it better for larger guilds and down further goes player fun.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
10.06.2017 , 02:02 PM | #25
It may become necessary for the guild landscape to reshape. Smaller guilds with similar orientation may have to unite to become larger, but it is too early to say anything concrete about it.

exfell's Avatar


exfell
10.06.2017 , 02:03 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqsko View Post
What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.
Divide guild score by number of unique player accounts that have gained conquest points in the guild during the week. Possibly with a low limit like reaching personal goal or something before an account is counted towards the divide.

Needs refining but that's one suggestion of where to start and it is equal and does not punish for simply being big.
Keep the current system too as an abssolute score one and the one suggeted above a second separate league.
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Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyCT View Post
Ah, 5 people demanding it and 5 people against it - Ladies and Gentlemen, I present "The Majority".

Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
10.06.2017 , 02:12 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
It may become necessary for the guild landscape to reshape. Smaller guilds with similar orientation may have to unite to become larger, but it is too early to say anything concrete about it.
This is impossible. The medium guilds instead further divide into smaller guilds. No guilds want to merge because they will lose their guild ship or their nice friends-access to a guild storage. Believe me I've tried, been trying to find ANY guild that wants a merge to come on board, nope, none out there, and there never will be.

MaraSkyJade's Avatar


MaraSkyJade
10.06.2017 , 02:16 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqsko View Post
What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.
Something I've seen used in Warframe are guild types based on size. A Ghost clan, for example, has a max of 10 people. A Storm clan has a max of 100 members. A Moon clan has a max of 1,000. Etc.

So...it's possible the leader boards could be grouped by guild size. Where the "Ewok" guilds compete against "Ewok" guilds, the "Rancor" guilds compete against "Rancor" guilds, etc.

Just a thought.
"Gone hunting for a few days. Don't be mad at me, Farmboy..." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
10.06.2017 , 02:35 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by exfell View Post
Divide guild score by number of unique player accounts that have gained conquest points in the guild during the week. Possibly with a low limit like reaching personal goal or something before an account is counted towards the divide.

Needs refining but that's one suggestion of where to start and it is equal and does not punish for simply being big.
Keep the current system too as an abssolute score one and the one suggeted above a second separate league.
The only issue I see with that is it favors alt-ism with keeping all alts in one guild. You'd have to restructure repeatable objectives to be only obtainable once per day per account rather than per character. That was the issue with conquest crafting, people with lots of alts could basically craft bomb other guilds into submission do to the fact that all crafting objectives were repeatable except the final War Supply crafting. I should know, I have a couple conquest titles where I basically put up 50% of my guild's points across all my alts.

And believe me, I started conquest playing fair and square until a guild craft bombed mine out of win. After that I became a merciless craft bomber, so I can speak from experience about how people will try to abuse any system put in place if that is what it takes to win when everyone else around you is also doing it. Even in the friendly competition between my guild and Remnants of Hope, we still craft bombed each other right up until the end because if we didn't it would have been 2 other guilds competing and doing the same thing to each other.

I don't mean to be a negative nancy here, but its far better we pick at the flaws in any suggestion here than wait until something is implemented and realize the true negative impacts, like the nerf to conquest crafting basically made small guild have absolutely no shot at competing. It would have been one thing to introduce it that way, but to give them the illusion of opportunity (even if realistically they had a better chance to win the lottery) only to snatch it away is pretty heartless in my eyes. That's why I said earlier, if their design intentions are for only big guilds to be competitive, then they need to come out and say that so we know what they expect out of the system, so they can know what we expect out of that.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.06.2017 , 02:49 PM | #30
I am part of a small guild on harbinger and we currently are able to make it on the conquest board despite having maybe 5-10 active members depending on the night. Now when there's only one planet to invade we're just screwed. But then idk bigger guilds have managed to attract more players so maybe they should have that advantage. Personally I don't particularly favor the large guild life any way.