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Will there be more class balancing? What do you expect?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Will there be more class balancing? What do you expect?

Threjyan's Avatar


Threjyan
09.14.2017 , 04:55 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
Love it when you compare a NiM parse with a HM parse too mate
When you look at the HM parse list for Nefra I see 3VG/PT ahead, no assassin.
When you look at the NiM parse, you have one sin at 11k next is a PT with 10k
The only shadow you see in the list next only does 9k, for both NiM and HM
Please next time bring a real comparison
Although I don't know how this guy managed to hit this hard with the same rotation as me '-' guess Surging Charge proc made everything :/
i was not comparing. i was merely showing it is posible to hit those numbers (hm or nim) - and unfortunalty a large portion of the pve comunity left the game or else we would see even bigger pool with those numbers - and not all players upload their parses to parsely - although i failed to read your post where you were only refering to deception sins

and im rolling a sin deception so challenge accepted
..The Path Of Excess Leads To The Tower Of Wisdom..

MuskyBoy's Avatar


MuskyBoy
09.14.2017 , 05:03 AM | #22
It seems to me that the biggest problem is for damage output Bioware either don't seem to be able to do it correctly or they have had a change of heart but haven't told the player base. As of now the following buffs/nerfs have been poorly executed

Arsenal merc - Over nerfed by about 200-300 dps
Madness sorc - Under buffed by300 -400 dps
Carnage mara - Under nerfed by about 300 dps
Pyro Pt - under buffed by about 250 dps
Hatred sin - under buffed about 300 dps
concealment operative - Over nerfed by200-300 dps

It seems like the only specs they nerfed correctly were engineering/virulence sniper (although technically even this is wrong because apparently virulence is quasi sustained and therefore should be doing less then engi), IO Merc (not counting their failure to improve aoe/dot spread) and lethality operative. Fury mara has also been reasonably buffed.

If Bioware have had a change of heart on their "target dps" they should let their players know. they should also tell the player base what the "target dps" is if they are continuing with the current meta.

trabble's Avatar


trabble
09.14.2017 , 06:28 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

..blahblah..SNIP

We knew Class changes were a top priority, so we provided insight about how we intended to balance all Classes ahead of next week’s patch. Since we took so long to make changes after the release of KOTET (5.0), we had quite a few big changes to make, and that’s what you’ve been reading the last few weeks. It is going to be rough for some Disciplines as they are way over target, but it is important that we bring them in line. Additionally, we may have missed the mark with some of the changes and if we went too far or not far enough, you can expect to see additional adjustments in the future. Going forward, it is our intent to stay on top of Class balance so changes will be less severe/sweeping than they are in 5.3 and the upcoming 5.4 patch in August.

Let's get a little more specific! The following list is not comprehensive, but here is some of the key feedback we have read coming out of the Class change posts:
  • Arsenal/Gunnery needed survivability/utility nerfs, not DPS - As we said in the balance thread, we want to get damage targets in line first before we touch too much utility. They did get a slight nerf to survivability in 5.3, and we will monitor both their damage and ability to stay alive going forward.
  • Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact DPS - Admittedly those two Disciplines were substantially overperforming and will receive the most significant nerfs in 5.3. But, we will watch their performance closely and make changes if we’ve gone too far. The same is true of the impact on "Sorc/Sage bubble" for DPS. We’ll change it or give them other defensive options to compensate if needed.
  • Madness/Balance buffs are nice but they are still Force negative! - Beyond the changes already listed, they are receiving a buff to their Force regeneration to no longer be rotationally negative. We have doubled the effect of Sith Efficacy / Psychic Barrier so that each channel of Force Lightning / Telekinetic Throw will restore 8% of total Force (minus the cost). To be clear, that’s a net of +3 per tick of damage or +12 total Force per channel, not including the ongoing passive Force regeneration that also occurs during the channel.

When we start talking about 5.4 changes, we will work to do better in keeping the conversation alive around Class balance. This way we can make sure everyone has a clear understanding of all concerns/feedback going into the update.

Thanks everyone!

-eric
This is how our Feedback works. The Forum is full of threads about the non-buffed in fact nerved madness sorcs; how underperforming the class is and bios reaction "madness / balance buffs are nice"..... "Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact "

LOL BIO ?! *** is wrong with you ?!
:

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
09.14.2017 , 06:42 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Threjyan View Post
and im rolling a sin deception so challenge accepted
If you're on TRE, just come say hi, we'll try it together

Quote: Originally Posted by MuskyBoy View Post
It seems to me that the biggest problem is for damage output Bioware either don't seem to be able to do it correctly or they have had a change of heart but haven't told the player base. As of now the following buffs/nerfs have been poorly executed

Arsenal merc - Over nerfed by about 200-300 dps
Madness sorc - Under buffed by300 -400 dps
Carnage mara - Under nerfed by about 300 dps
Pyro Pt - under buffed by about 250 dps
Hatred sin - under buffed about 300 dps
concealment operative - Over nerfed by200-300 dps

It seems like the only specs they nerfed correctly were engineering/virulence sniper (although technically even this is wrong because apparently virulence is quasi sustained and therefore should be doing less then engi), IO Merc (not counting their failure to improve aoe/dot spread) and lethality operative. Fury mara has also been reasonably buffed.

If Bioware have had a change of heart on their "target dps" they should let their players know. they should also tell the player base what the "target dps" is if they are continuing with the current meta.
Well, this is the main issue yeah, they keep throwing in changes without explaining why, without saying what are their target dps, without any explanation on how their testing are made, furthermore we don't hear anything about combat balance, both in PvE and in PvP.

Quote: Originally Posted by trabble View Post
This is how our Feedback works. The Forum is full of threads about the non-buffed in fact nerved madness sorcs; how underperforming the class is and bios reaction "madness / balance buffs are nice"..... "Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact "
Yep, they never explain clearly or take the whole feedback into consideration. Numerous time they showed that their only goal was minimum work. Remember this story about the glitch with the Umbara SH ? Just because they didn't want to take the time to make a reactivation cost different than the purchase price.

The main problem being lack of real communication. Don't know about you, but I've seen the class balance guy talk on the forum only once. And it was years ago.
This, and the fact that it took almost a year for the dev team to see that the cxp values were to low to be really enjoyable for the players.... I don't think they play the same game as us, players. They feel very distant from the community and the game. The only guy we hear talking is Musco, who don't know about game mechanics, and Keith, the guy who played the game a little and saw that cxp was more fun when you would receive plenty of it.
This doesn't look promising for the future sadly, if they can't even find where lies the problem within their class balance.
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.14.2017 , 12:23 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by trabble View Post
This is how our Feedback works. The Forum is full of threads about the non-buffed in fact nerved madness sorcs; how underperforming the class is and bios reaction "madness / balance buffs are nice"..... "Corruption/Seer nerfs went too far and may also negatively impact "

LOL BIO ?! *** is wrong with you ?!
Hey the sage nerfs were the final straw for my vigi guardian days. The healer could no longer spare enough heals to keep the squishy dps alive. After a miserable hypergates where I literally died in the amounts of double digits because I was focused hard, I said I'm done make me skank gear.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
09.30.2017 , 03:40 PM | #26
For the most part, I'd describe myself as a fairly casual player. I'm not one to hit a Boss Target Dummy and check my parses... but back when my guilds did End Game content, I was a Raid healer and tank... these days, my guild(s) are ghost towns, so I'm not doing end game content at all right now.

My characters at 70...
Commando (Medic), Scoundrel (Scrapper), Shadow (Kinetic), Sentinel (Concentration)
Power Tech (Shield), Sniper (Marksman), Sorcerer (Corruption), Juggernaut (Immortal)
...in the past year, I've also played around with Mercenary (Arsenal), Gunslinger (Dirty Fighter), Assassin (Hatred) and Marauder (Carnage?) but those characters have topped out or been abandoned around 30-40th level.

I realize that my opinion isn't going to be informed as someone who is putting in hours of game time or doing spread-sheets of theory craft. I just want to play the game, and have fun... of course, part of having fun is understanding my class, getting decent gear, and not playing like a complete noob. To be honest, the reason I'm on the forums at all, is that my subscription just renewed, and I figured I wanted to cancel my recurring subscription, at least for now...

Here are my impressions... what I'd like to see...
When I'm playing my Commando, I have way too many freaking buttons. I have 5 bars, and they are stuffed full. I do have some redundancies, but if I were to take some stuff off my bar, I'm not sure which abilities give me the best bang for my energy cells (although, I do find that having 3 different abilities that regen energy cells seems redundant too; I rarely run low on energy).

Originally, my Scrapper was a Sawbones, but I found that the healing style did not work for me (or perhaps my raid group). I switched to Scrapper... but I still find this to be my most underwhelming character. Actually, part of the problem is I was using Treak as a companion, and I understand she did not convert to the new system "properly." Anyways... when I compare Scrapper healing to what my Arsenal Merc was doing, I'm kinda envious. The Arsenal has heavy armor (so more durability) about the same DPS as a Gunslinger (or, that is my impression) and the Arsenal off-healing is as good as a Scrapper's without the hassle of needing to manage Upper Hand.

I don't really have a concern about my Shadow... although, something I noticed on this character is applicable to (to my mind) all class/specs. One of the Shadow abilities is Shadowy Veil, and in the tool tip, it offers 30% more Armour. I'm a tank, OF COURSE I'm going to take that!
...except, when you do your close reading, that only applies to the other two, non-tank, specs. Would it really be so difficult for the tool-tips on our Masteries apply to the specific character that is selecting the Mastery?

Sentinel...my main problem with this class (and also with the Marauder) is that I can't really tell the Disciplines apart. They seem sort of the same.
...I did notice that the Jedi Knight's Force Stasis ability is channeled (but, sort of not????) is comparable to the Sith Warrior's Force Choke (which is not channeled at all) and this could use a straight up ... straight up fix. Also the Zealous Leap... ugh. My first problem with this is, the folks who have designed the way this power works have a really, horribly, WRONG idea of what sort of distance 10 meters is (about 30 feet) because it seems like I can only use this when I'm practically in melee range anyways. I'd much rather have the cooldown on Force Leap reduced.

One thing I notice when I'm playing my Power (Shield) Tech, is that I virtually never have resource management challenges. Like... ever. I'm not sure if having to worry about managing Heat would improve the way this character feels in play, but the fact that I don't ever have to do it is probably indicative of a design flaw. The one thing I really feel about Shield Tech, is that this class has the least Defensive Cooldowns of all the Tank classes I play, which tends to cut down on how much "stuff" I have to do while tanking.

Sniper... uhm. OK? I recently made the switch from Engineering to Marksman, because I just found that Engineering was a bit too much set-up to get DPS pay-offs. In casual play, and even flashpoints this meant I was under-performing. In boss fights, this discipline shines, but otherwise, no.

I'm loving my Sith Lords. No complaints about either class in terms of the way they feel when they play. The one quibble I have for my Sorcerer, is I miss having a 2nd Lightsaber attack. Jedi and Sith are all about the Lightsaber. What I'd like of like to see, is maybe for my Corruption class, a defensive Low Slash ability (I don't want to be in melee with you, so take it to the knee). For the DPS classes, maybe a Lightning empowered slash that does AoE damage?

...again, these are my impressions. How do the classes feel? How should they feel? It's very possible that someone parsing some numbers would come to different conclusions.