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Does Bioware Dislike Women?


Iceslasher's Avatar


Iceslasher
09.26.2017 , 08:01 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post
The problem is they probably have the same mindset I find with a lot of the players in the game. They don't believe women or LGBTQ play the game or we are the minority which is not really the case. I know in my guild we had an even amount of ladies playing the game.

This is the wrong mindset. Until bioware changes their mindset about who plays their game we will continue to have the situation we have where our choices are more limited than what the guys have. While I don't do a lot of the romances I know there are ladies that do and I think they should have the same choices.
Agree, The same with my guild.

Iceslasher's Avatar


Iceslasher
09.26.2017 , 08:06 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
Bioware has done very well with accommodating to the LG+ community. This game is lacking, however but I don't think that started out as bioware's fault.
Where, with Lana? I don't think the gay and male Bi community nor ladies will agree with you at all...Cytherat in from what i hear never contacted them again or even recognized them again...that is odd that they Accommodated anyone o.O...because they sure never even recognize any women in the game let alone the male half of the lgbtq communty again we don't exsist.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
09.26.2017 , 12:40 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceslasher View Post
Where, with Lana? I don't think the gay and male Bi community nor ladies will agree with you at all...Cytherat in from what i hear never contacted them again or even recognized them again...that is odd that they Accommodated anyone o.O...because they sure never even recognize any women in the game let alone the male half of the lgbtq communty again we don't exsist.
Try reading my post again.
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Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
09.26.2017 , 06:46 PM | #24
I actually love most of the vanilla romances for female characters - especially Iresso and Jorgan. So while they may not be to everyone's taste, I doubt it's a question of Bioware "hating" women, just of these things being subjective.

I do find it kinda funny though that several classes offer male characters significant romance choice that female characters don't get, plus female companions don't seem to be written unless they can be romanced. The latter issue I consider problematic and I'm glad that approach has changed.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.26.2017 , 11:35 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post
The problem is they probably have the same mindset I find with a lot of the players in the game. They don't believe women or LGBTQ play the game or we are the minority which is not really the case. I know in my guild we had an even amount of ladies playing the game.

This is the wrong mindset. Until bioware changes their mindset about who plays their game we will continue to have the situation we have where our choices are more limited than what the guys have. While I don't do a lot of the romances I know there are ladies that do and I think they should have the same choices.
I think that's 1000% true. It's the same mindset that a lot of people and companies have - that women and LGBT people can't possibly be interested in things like video games, sports, science fiction, space exploration,etc. They don't even realize or care that they're ignoring a significant chunk of their fan and customer base. Even companies like Her Universe, which makes clothes for women that are cute *and* geeky with Star Wars and other franchises, are still a relatively new and novel thing.

And while I think part of the issue with SWTOR's content came from outside pressures initially - they were worried about putting LGBT content in a Star Wars game - it's Bioware's writers that have made the decisions about the types of LIs presented to female PCs/players, the lack of flirts, the exploitative costumes made only for female PCs/companions, etc. It's Bioware's writers who have apparently decided that having exactly one lesbian romance option in the entire game is great (and I'm the president of the Lana cheering squad, LOL - but it's silly to think every bi/lesbian PC or player is going to like or want to romance the same companion). They have done way more in other games, like Dragon Age, and it's a shame they can't bring SWTOR up to that level.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
09.26.2017 , 11:48 PM | #26
I wish I had a LI that was as important as Lana. I know it's just Lana for the f/f romance, but holy hell. She's everywhere. I'd stop complaining if my LI was that big in the game.
But I don't have all that much to complain about for myself when it comes to LI. Except the male force user thing, which is going to be solved either way.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.27.2017 , 12:28 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
I wish I had a LI that was as important as Lana. I know it's just Lana for the f/f romance, but holy hell. She's everywhere. I'd stop complaining if my LI was that big in the game.
But I don't have all that much to complain about for myself when it comes to LI. Except the male force user thing, which is going to be solved either way.
Yes, she has been - and there was even a way to keep her involved in the last two chapters of KOTET. I'm very grateful for that, and as you know, I adore my blonde Sith. Personally, as long as she's around and is included, I will be very happy.

But what if someone were a lesbian/bi female player/PC and *didn't* care for her, which is certainly possible? Their options are...nil. Even though there are flirts with Acina, there's nothing actually going on for them, which has to be frustrating.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
09.27.2017 , 12:31 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Yes, she has been - and there was even a way to keep her involved in the last two chapters of KOTET. I'm very grateful for that, and as you know, I adore my blonde Sith. Personally, as long as she's around and is included, I will be very happy.

But what if someone were a lesbian/bi female player/PC and *didn't* care for her, which is certainly possible? Their options are...nil. Even though there are flirts with Acina, there's nothing actually going on for them, which has to be frustrating.
Yeah, they can and should introduce more females as well as males.
But compared to the vanilla ones, the LG+ community will always be behind.
Do you think there will be an amount where you feel like, "we have it pretty good"?
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MayhemofChaonus's Avatar


MayhemofChaonus
09.27.2017 , 12:33 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Iceslasher View Post
Do you get the feeling Bioware doesn't like women? O.O or maybe never even met a woman in their lives?
I am talking about romances. Don't get me wrong the original story lines were Epic loved them. But the romances for the most part were pretty terrible for women to say the least.
Lets look at it objectively, we have
Agent = man part bug, Crawling with bugs, Warrior = Traitor Bounty hunter = Honourable Hunter ( best and only good one ) Inquisitor = insane ( brought on by torture and sith relic) psychotic pirate
Knight = Male Whore ( thank god he can cure his own V.D.'s) Consular = Holocron head ( its in his BRAIN and SITH)
Trooper = Cat ( can you say *******ITY) and finally my fav Smuggler -.- = Door nob who rides cows drunk and that is what he calls fun. Personally I don't mind the inquisitor and love the BH ones.
Male romances...i will just count them out for you Agent = Kaliyo, Temple Warrior = Vette, Jessa ( light OR Dark) BH = Mako , Inquisitor = Ashara, Trooper = Dorne, Knight = Kira
Consular = Nadia Finally Smuggler your choice of Risha or Akavi.

Just for interest sake Men romance-able choices = 11 ( most good other then Kaliyo but hey make up for it with Temple
Women romance-able choice = 1 great..2 ok maybe depending the rest ewwww but the grand total is 7 ( traitor Hell NO
The reason i wonder if Bioware may dislike their female player base or not want us paying sub fees or even in the game is they Finally bring out a good romance toon and we do EVERYTHING right to keep him ALL light side options on our toons choose the republic make sure we choose things he would like, everything and the story tellers still decide to take the male romance companion and make him the traitor ...really NOT LIKE THE GUYS DON`T ALREADY have a CRAP TON already .. WE WILL SCREW OVER THE WOMEN BASE EVEN MORE! THANKS !!!
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
I've always had the sneaking suspicion that they either don't like female players, don't actually believe we exist, or think that waaaaay more men play than women, which isn't the case with this game. I think I read somewhere it was a fairly even split M/F player wise in SWTOR land.

Male toons, get more flirts all the way across the board. I used to keep track of the numbers and it was ridiculous how much more the male toons got to flirt. And they were fairly decent people to flirt with. One of the most horrific moments is for Lady Agent who makes the mistake of using her feminine wiles over poison to get info out of a source on Nar Shaddaa. The contact is extremely unattractive and to add insult to injury, you come out of the fade to black on your back, laying on a couch. No where else, with anyone else do you get that. Warrior also gets to flirt with an unattractive dude on Hoth too...if they so choose.

As for the companion romances, I was pleased with most of them, but again, men got more out of those relationships and more selection, with some getting two choices. Male warriors get 2, Male smugs get 2...at best female players who play warrior can have a 1 nighter with Pierce and female consulars can have a 1 nighter with Cedrax and after she gets dumped in favor of a hologram. How uncool is that?

The way I see it, everyone should've gotten two choices. For lady smugs, Skavak might have been fun as well as Corso...For female JK, Doc and Scourge...Consular...should've gotten to be with Zenith, cause I'm sorry, Iresso is about as fun as watching paint dry. Troopers, should've gotten Balkar...because aside from his voice, I have no use for Aric Jorgan. For me, cats are pets, not lovers, sorry. As for Sith warrior, a full romance with Pierce should've been available for those who want it. Or Lieutenant Rutau. I adore Malavai so it's one of the few classes where I am happy with the romance.

SI female should've had another choice too...either Talos, or someone else a dark councillor would've been nice. Maybe Vowrawn or Ravage. Ideally Marr, but I think most know what happens there.

Bounty hunter should have gotten another option besides the jibberish spewing Torian. He's cute, but I barely understand anything coming out of his mouth. Gault had a neat personality but another attractive choice would've been welcome...maybe Mandalore himself...or the guy in charge of the great hunt.

Vector is another wonderful romance, so my Lady Agent was very happy, but for those who are less tolerant of the unusual, another choice like Sanju Pine might have been nice.

Bioware does not seem to be in touch with much of their female player base's needs. Many have been bugging for Scourge for years, myself included, but I've yet to see that happen. The one rumoured might appeal to some, but not for me and those I know personally that play the game.

Theron was the one bright beacon of happiness and was a gift to the female and gay male player base. He was truly exceptional and now it seems he's being taken away through the story. I don't want to get into another horse beating match like on General, so I guess we'll have to see how that turns out, but I'm pretty sure they chose HIM because they thought there were more guys who play and would get mad and quit if precious Lana was made the traitor.

Lana may as well be made of gold, because I don't see Bioware or their devs ever doing a harm to her. I sometimes feel like their direction is to force Lana on ALL players...and I don't want her. Ever.

For me, the game would be vastly improved for the female player base, if they included more attractive NPC flirts...and more choices for romance partners across all the classes. Give us Scourge, that would be brilliant.

A lover on the dark council would be fun. So would a clandestine romance with another Jedi master. Relnex anyone?
Woah, woah, woah. Hold on guys, lets not all jump on the "Evil white capitalist patriarchy is oppressing me" bandwagon. We all know what kind of unfriendly stuff THAT leads to...

I think BW just misjudged the number of female gamers who would play SWTOR right from launch. They didn't fully plan/prepare for the number of females who would play an MMO. Statistics on most MMO's show a much larger population of men than women (usually its roughly 65% vs. 35%, depending on the brand/franchise) and Star Wars has historically been popular with men more so than women. Not in percentages but in sheer numbers, and this is simply due to the fact that there are still more heterosexual men than women in the overall gamer population (I'm not including mobile games because unless they were ported to mobile from PC or console they aren't "real video games" and mobile games are even more unbalanced in favor of women than PC/console games are in favor of men). For example lets say that 15% of all male and 15% of all female gamers play SWTOR, well if the "gamer" population is 55% v 45% in favor of men, then guess which gender has the larger number of players in SWTOR?

As for their continued "ignoring" of female gamers? I put it up to a lack of openly female forum presence and the simple fact that the BW staff is (I assume) running around like headless chickens trying to plug all the leaks from which SWTOR is bleeding out to be overly concerned with "gendered" issues, rather than outright misogyny.

Plus BW, under EA's guidance, has slowly been morphing into an SJW company, much like the failing Marvel. So I don't think its a hatred or even dislike of women, but due to various other issues.

Also, I would have loved if Lana was the traitor Luna. I think most people would have loved it too. She was, after all, Sith, and what else do Sith do? Personally, even though I'm neither gay nor female, I was actually kinda sad that Theron was the traitor. I really liked him in a "bro" kind of way. He could be an ***** sometimes and a principled pain when I'm being realistic (read as: making DS choices) and rational, but he was still "my bro", "my dude", "the guy I can trust with anything" (not so much that last one now ).

P.S. Very few people are actually genuine misogynists. The level of hatred one must achieve to become a true misogynist is beyond most people's desire and ability.

Quote:
"The only guys worth anything are the ones who respect you."
Poor, naive Corso. The poor farmboy thinks women are rational lol. I have an older sister and have had lots of female friends, and every time, without fail, the guy who respects women gets left at the side of the road and the women chase after the guys who treat them like garbage, or at least like they're worth less than them.

I do like though that Corso does at least try to teach the female smuggler to look at men logically rather than emotionally (Hint: that is how we look at you, ladies). That does him some credit, points for effort ya know?
"The weak will always be victims. That is the way of the universe. The strong take what they want, and the weak suffer at their hands. That is their fate; it is inevitable. Only the strong survive, because only the strong deserve to" - Darth Bane
May the Force forsake you

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.27.2017 , 01:06 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
Yeah, they can and should introduce more females as well as males.
But compared to the vanilla ones, the LG+ community will always be behind.
Do you think there will be an amount where you feel like, "we have it pretty good"?
It is always going to be behind....but IMHO if every player, regardless of their orientation, has two or ideally three choices, it would suffice. IIRC that's about what one can do in a game like Dragon Age. I don't think there should ever be a situation where it's one or nothing - which is what female players have in the class stories and f/f players have now.

I do hear people that think that the new companions shouldn't be bisexual by default. But on the other hand, when there are so few choices, every companion counts, and Bioware hasn't had the guts to make a strictly gay character since Makeb. As I said before I fully believe Lana's not supposed to like boys, but they needed a female LI for the men in KOTET, so there she is.

So realistically, if they do another expansion and there are two men and two women available to all players as new romance options - either new characters, or older companions/NPCs that are now LIs, like your guy from Zakuul - let's say, one that is more DS and the other that is more LS - I think that's the best we can hope for.