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Does Bioware Dislike Women?


Iceslasher's Avatar


Iceslasher
09.23.2017 , 11:20 PM | #1
Do you get the feeling Bioware doesn't like women? O.O or maybe never even met a woman in their lives?
I am talking about romances. Don't get me wrong the original story lines were Epic loved them. But the romances for the most part were pretty terrible for women to say the least.
Lets look at it objectively, we have
Agent = man part bug, Crawling with bugs, Warrior = Traitor Bounty hunter = Honourable Hunter ( best and only good one ) Inquisitor = insane ( brought on by torture and sith relic) psychotic pirate
Knight = Male Whore ( thank god he can cure his own V.D.'s) Consular = Holocron head ( its in his BRAIN and SITH)
Trooper = Cat ( can you say *******ITY) and finally my fav Smuggler -.- = Door nob who rides cows drunk and that is what he calls fun. Personally I don't mind the inquisitor and love the BH ones.
Male romances...i will just count them out for you Agent = Kaliyo, Temple Warrior = Vette, Jessa ( light OR Dark) BH = Mako , Inquisitor = Ashara, Trooper = Dorne, Knight = Kira
Consular = Nadia Finally Smuggler your choice of Risha or Akavi.

Just for interest sake Men romance-able choices = 11 ( most good other then Kaliyo but hey make up for it with Temple
Women romance-able choice = 1 great..2 ok maybe depending the rest ewwww but the grand total is 7 ( traitor Hell NO
The reason i wonder if Bioware may dislike their female player base or not want us paying sub fees or even in the game is they Finally bring out a good romance toon and we do EVERYTHING right to keep him ALL light side options on our toons choose the republic make sure we choose things he would like, everything and the story tellers still decide to take the male romance companion and make him the traitor ...really NOT LIKE THE GUYS DON`T ALREADY have a CRAP TON already .. WE WILL SCREW OVER THE WOMEN BASE EVEN MORE! THANKS !!!

Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
09.24.2017 , 12:05 AM | #2
I've always had the sneaking suspicion that they either don't like female players, don't actually believe we exist, or think that waaaaay more men play than women, which isn't the case with this game. I think I read somewhere it was a fairly even split M/F player wise in SWTOR land.

Male toons, get more flirts all the way across the board. I used to keep track of the numbers and it was ridiculous how much more the male toons got to flirt. And they were fairly decent people to flirt with. One of the most horrific moments is for Lady Agent who makes the mistake of using her feminine wiles over poison to get info out of a source on Nar Shaddaa. The contact is extremely unattractive and to add insult to injury, you come out of the fade to black on your back, laying on a couch. No where else, with anyone else do you get that. Warrior also gets to flirt with an unattractive dude on Hoth too...if they so choose.

As for the companion romances, I was pleased with most of them, but again, men got more out of those relationships and more selection, with some getting two choices. Male warriors get 2, Male smugs get 2...at best female players who play warrior can have a 1 nighter with Pierce and female consulars can have a 1 nighter with Cedrax and after she gets dumped in favor of a hologram. How uncool is that?

The way I see it, everyone should've gotten two choices. For lady smugs, Skavak might have been fun as well as Corso...For female JK, Doc and Scourge...Consular...should've gotten to be with Zenith, cause I'm sorry, Iresso is about as fun as watching paint dry. Troopers, should've gotten Balkar...because aside from his voice, I have no use for Aric Jorgan. For me, cats are pets, not lovers, sorry. As for Sith warrior, a full romance with Pierce should've been available for those who want it. Or Lieutenant Rutau. I adore Malavai so it's one of the few classes where I am happy with the romance.

SI female should've had another choice too...either Talos, or someone else a dark councillor would've been nice. Maybe Vowrawn or Ravage. Ideally Marr, but I think most know what happens there.

Bounty hunter should have gotten another option besides the jibberish spewing Torian. He's cute, but I barely understand anything coming out of his mouth. Gault had a neat personality but another attractive choice would've been welcome...maybe Mandalore himself...or the guy in charge of the great hunt.

Vector is another wonderful romance, so my Lady Agent was very happy, but for those who are less tolerant of the unusual, another choice like Sanju Pine might have been nice.

Bioware does not seem to be in touch with much of their female player base's needs. Many have been bugging for Scourge for years, myself included, but I've yet to see that happen. The one rumoured might appeal to some, but not for me and those I know personally that play the game.

Theron was the one bright beacon of happiness and was a gift to the female and gay male player base. He was truly exceptional and now it seems he's being taken away through the story. I don't want to get into another horse beating match like on General, so I guess we'll have to see how that turns out, but I'm pretty sure they chose HIM because they thought there were more guys who play and would get mad and quit if precious Lana was made the traitor.

Lana may as well be made of gold, because I don't see Bioware or their devs ever doing a harm to her. I sometimes feel like their direction is to force Lana on ALL players...and I don't want her. Ever.

For me, the game would be vastly improved for the female player base, if they included more attractive NPC flirts...and more choices for romance partners across all the classes. Give us Scourge, that would be brilliant.

A lover on the dark council would be fun. So would a clandestine romance with another Jedi master. Relnex anyone?

Roma_Akyma's Avatar


Roma_Akyma
09.24.2017 , 12:06 AM | #3
Well that is an accurate description of the dudes for women. The women get shafted, just not that way.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
09.24.2017 , 02:38 AM | #4
Not all of the writers were men for the LI women have. Does that mean that Bioware women hate women too?
#Arcannite
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Iceslasher's Avatar


Iceslasher
09.24.2017 , 09:29 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
Not all of the writers were men for the LI women have. Does that mean that Bioware women hate women too?
That does mean that one woman WAS overruled. Never touch the male fantasy...seems like women don't count.

Joluka's Avatar


Joluka
09.24.2017 , 12:43 PM | #6
I agree with what you guys have said, but I honestly gotta disagree with the smuggler side of things. I actually felt a pretty great balance with the male and female smugglers with the flirts (save the LIs you can romance, as we only get Corso).

You can flirt with about the same amount of people in the class story, but I'll even argue that the female smuggler is the best choice out of the two concerning the actual arc. Sure, Risha's a very big part of the smuggler story, so she makes a good case as to why you'd want to be a male, but honestly, if you pursue the romance with Darmas Pollaran things can get VERY personal toward the end of the story.

Here's a video I made of the femSmuggler when she and Rogun find out Darmas and the Senator are scumbags:

https://youtu.be/Rlin4jXiSs4

If you play your smuggler as a flirt, but someone who actually falls for Darmas, she goes, "Darmas would never talk about me like that," when he calls you stupid and it's so heart-breaking. It fits the story, makes it way more personal since he's been with you since Coruscant, and it plugs in the theme that Corso's been trying to get your character to understand since he met her; "The only guys worth anything are the ones who respect you." It makes it doubly painful to get betrayed by Darmas because Corso told you the planet before (Voss, when you shagged with a cheating Voss) that one day you could lose everything for being such a whore. So like, now it's happening and femSmuggler is like, "OH ****!"

Plus, you can have sex with Skavak.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.24.2017 , 12:51 PM | #7
I agree with this. While they've made a point of creating some strong female characters like Acina, Lana Beniko, even Saresh, I get the feeling it's still very much a dudebro industry. We've seen:

1. Far less flirts and one-night stands for female characters in vanilla. Comparing the male Sith Inquisitor to the female SI, for instance, is a pretty huge shock. The male SI literally flirts from his FIRST CONVERSATION in the game, but the female gets nothing. And the flirts that do exist tend to be less appealing.

2. The love interests for women in vanilla tend to be creepier and more questionable than the ones for men. There are the ones that constantly badger the player when she's said no, the one who betrays and tries to kill you, the creepy dude who pressures you into marrying him with a ship droid he's kept on hand...Meanwhile the male players get people like Vette, Jaesa, Kira, Elara, etc.

3. ONE - exactly ONE - love interest for lesbian/bisexual women in the entire seven years of the game. I love Lana Beniko dearly, but expecting every single lesbian/bi PC to fall for the same person and giving them zero variety is a bit weird. And for what it's worth everything about Lana makes me think she doesn't actually like boys, but of course they had to make her available to male players so they'd have someone to boink in SoR/KOTFE.

4. Slave girl and dancer getups and other revealing costumes that are not available to male companions/PCs. So if you want to dress your female companion like a sex slave that's cool, but you can't do that with a male one.

5. Less diversity with body types for female characters. The BT 4. for men is a big guy. The BT 4 for women..has a big butt and chest. Because clearly if someone wants a 'larger' female character that is what they mean, right?

6. Female (and gay male) PCs being betrayed by like three different love interests now...

7. Vaylin was tortured and driven mad, but she doesn't get a redemption possibility or even a fraction of the sympathy that is extended to Arcann.

Jagaimee's Avatar


Jagaimee
09.24.2017 , 01:06 PM | #8
Yeah. They do. There's a strange paradox going on with them...
Female players (more accurately, straight female players)? Pff. Who cares? Let's dump all the crappy LI's on them and tear their hearts into shreds repeatedly by having a good number of said LI's die, betray them, up and leave, cheat on them, etc.
Female characters? All hail the goddesses of amazingness who can do no wrong, no matter how badly they treat you or others! You're going to be stuck with them no matter what you do. Go ahead, try and kill Leliana in Dragon Age Origins. She'll show up alive and well in the next two games! (Granted, that actually had a lore-appropriate justification, but still. For all intents and purposes, it's still the same character.) Try and be mean to Liara in Mass Effect! She'll treat you like you're best friends come Mass Effect 2, and your first - automatic - action is to hug her! Try to diss Lana Beniko and ignore her. She shows up IN YOUR BEDROOM watching over you in your sleep even if you're not romancing her! (But that's stupid, right? I mean, who doesn't want to romance Lana? Right? ...RIGHT!?!?)

It's a good thing I actually like a number of the LI's available for women in this game and others. Cullen, Garrus, Thane, Theron, Corso, Quinn, Jorgan, Blackwall, Solas, etc.
Let's see, though. Out of those... a few betray you and/or try to kill you. Several of them can or will die. One's practically engineered to offend the feminists so much they want to murder him on sight (that'd be Corso). One's tearing himself into shreds over a magical drug addiction (and of course you can force him to keep taking it, which eventually leads to his death). One's actually a murderer who's been lying to you all this time. Another's actually a murderer on an EPIC scale and is willing to tear apart the entire world to restore the lost glory of his people. ........okay, that guy might actually be the worst. XD
Other male LI's in this game? Andronikos - a gleefully murderous and slightly insane amoral pirate. Iresso - who? Nice guy, but boring. Doc - sleazy womanizing slimeball. Torian - actually a pretty nice guy, but...also kinda boring. At least he's Mandalorian. (Hey! Lunafox! Mando'a is not gibberish! ) Vector - hive-mined bug boy. And that's just for SWTOR.....
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StarkHelsing's Avatar


StarkHelsing
09.24.2017 , 03:10 PM | #9
Bit of a judgement to make. Do I think they hate women? Hell no. Bioware is literally one of the most alt left developers out there.

I'm unsure why there's an assumption going around that every woman is playing as a female toon? I'm straight, I'm female. I play male toons who romance female toons? -Shrugs-

Most of the females I know actually have male toons to play with. Not every woman is playing as a female toon.

Regardless, the romances - never really noticed truth be told. They seemed fine enough to me. I'm not actually recalling one where it's all that off-putting for women. Heck, female Counsellor got the better romance than the male.

Issue being is that the games seem to have a lot of women who are in power, it's the very fact Bioware supports women and thinks they should be higher ups etc, is where we get this issue. There are more opportunities to flirt with strong independent women, you see more of them than you do the men. I noticed this when it came to the whole flirting.
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Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
09.24.2017 , 03:41 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Jagaimee View Post
(Hey! Lunafox! Mando'a is not gibberish! )
He hee. Don't get me wrong, I liked Torian for the most part, I just don't do well with Mando'a--as soon as I hear it or see it, my eyes glaze over and I'm like...what the heck did he just say? Or I have to search for translation, which takes you out of the moment. When he straight up spoke basic, I liked his voice and he was a decent guy. He also seemed a bit on the young side for me personally, but that's okay, because people of all ages play and like different things.


Quote: Originally Posted by StarkHelsing View Post
Bit of a judgement to make. Do I think they hate women? Hell no. Bioware is literally one of the most alt left developers out there.

I'm unsure why there's an assumption going around that every woman is playing as a female toon? I'm straight, I'm female. I play male toons who romance female toons? -Shrugs-

Most of the females I know actually have male toons to play with. Not every woman is playing as a female toon.

Regardless, the romances - never really noticed truth be told. They seemed fine enough to me. I'm not actually recalling one where it's all that off-putting for women. Heck, female Counsellor got the better romance than the male.

Issue being is that the games seem to have a lot of women who are in power, it's the very fact Bioware supports women and thinks they should be higher ups etc, is where we get this issue. There are more opportunities to flirt with strong independent women, you see more of them than you do the men. I noticed this when it came to the whole flirting.
I agree with you in the sense that they do give women NPC's important roles to play and the ones we've seen are mostly intelligent and respectable people for the most part. They're competent. Mostly. (I really hate Holiday).

As for what females prefer to play, I guess that just depends. I prefer to play as a female, but I have played all the classes through as male too, just to see how the other half live and that's how I came up with my conclusions.

My husband tends to play as a female because he likes to have something pretty to look at if he's playing, that's his reasoning, but he has played male toons as well and has come to the same conclusions as I did, that men get more chances to flirt and more ftb. He noticed this particularly when he played his male SI...he got to flirt with the girl on NS in his cult...but the female SI couldn't flirt with the male. If things were fair, each should've had the option to flirt with the cult members.

Like another poster said, FSmuggler is fairly close to the ideal, in that she gets almost as much as the male smuggler where NPC flirts are concerned. I'd forgotten about Darmas and the one nighter with Skavak. But that's the thing to be really great, it would've been nice to have them as permanent choices. Darmas was particularly painful for me, because my smug preferred him to Corso.

I still think they could've done more, as I said, give everyone 2 choices at least.