Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

We seriously need a item rating requirement on Mastermode Flashpoint

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
We seriously need a item rating requirement on Mastermode Flashpoint

No-self's Avatar


No-self
09.15.2017 , 03:11 AM | #21
Well i can partially agree with people in the thread that it is in some way skill that is the issue, sure, but concider that a level 50 player has only reached about halvway through the skilltree/talenttree and are missing alot of key element, like active and passive skills, to perform an optimal dps rotation, there is no freaking way that a level 50 can perform on par with a level 70 top tier geared player, doesn't mather how skilled he or her is or if he or her has bolstering. If a level 50 could perform as a level 70 toptier geared player, gearing and leveling is essentially useless in terms of pve content and gearing.

In a flashpoint like korriban incursion, where the damagerequirement is important to be able to down the second droidboss before it starts to spew out rockets on everyone, these missing talent and skills on a level 50 dps is going (in a majority of the cases) to cause a wipe, i have seen it many, many times.

I can take a step back on my argument that mastermode flashpoints needs a item level requirement, but the fact remains that when i join a group for korriban, blood hunt, or any other enrageoriented-need to have good damage output-flashpoints, when a below level 70 dps is the group, there is not enough dps to complete it.

The problem might be skill-related, the problem might be gear-related, the problem might be missing talent, probably it's a combination of all of them and it's my belief that something needs to be done to fix this issue.

Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
09.15.2017 , 09:29 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by No-self View Post
Well i can partially agree with people in the thread that it is in some way skill that is the issue, sure, but concider that a level 50 player has only reached about halvway through the skilltree/talenttree and are missing alot of key element, like active and passive skills, to perform an optimal dps rotation, there is no freaking way that a level 50 can perform on par with a level 70 top tier geared player, doesn't mather how skilled he or her is or if he or her has bolstering. If a level 50 could perform as a level 70 toptier geared player, gearing and leveling is essentially useless in terms of pve content and gearing.
...
The bold part is actually the case in SWTOR.
Until you are going to step into content without bolster, speaking Veteran and Master mode operations, gear is of no concern at all, as long as you have anything in your gear slots and the level is just a silly number in the end.

Of course a skilled well playing level 50 is not able to parse the same numbers than a equally skilled level 70 with top gear, but the difference is way smaller than you think and the level 50 knowing what he does, will out parse any level 70 who is having no clue. The difference is like with a level 70 that has the item level of what boost the bolster gives to a top geared high end NIM raider. And you just don't need NIM level gear or player skill to clear the Master mode FPs, the difference is, the NIM player is able to carry the group while the other would have a hard time trying.
Same with a level 50, knowing how to play the class/role he is fully capable to do his share, maybe even a 120% performance, but he can't compensate for someone doing only 50% or less. But in the end he shouldn't have to carry anyone.

All classes have most of their important abilities for the rotation by level 50, there are very few skills you get afterwards and most of them are kind of passive like CD reductions or are defensive and movement related.
Yes, they help to perform better once you have them, but the margin isn't that big.

Especially with so many RND players in GF that just use their basic attacks like an assassin in Rakata yesterday building up his procs but never ever using them and always standing in front of the enemies. The operative staying on range using his few rifle attacks and so on, there are numerous examples everyone regularly running GF is able to tell of.
But there is also the fact, often enough it's still enough (came through Rakata without wipes it just took ages). Though I admit rarely with those bosses you mentioned, if there isn't a very good DPS player to carry them. But as said before there should be no need to carry others that much in the first place. All have to do their part and any level 50 knowing how to play his class is very well capable of that.
Freund werben, 7 Tage Probeabo: www.swtor.com/r/GJhHrY

Torvai's Avatar


Torvai
09.18.2017 , 02:32 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by No-self View Post
If a level 50 could perform as a level 70 toptier geared player, gearing and leveling is essentially useless in terms of pve content and gearing.
In bolstered content, yes, level and gear are pretty much irrellevant.
Case in point:
Quote:
In a flashpoint like korriban incursion, where the damagerequirement is important to be able to down the second droidboss before it starts to spew out rockets on everyone, these missing talent and skills on a level 50 dps is going (in a majority of the cases) to cause a wipe, i have seen it many, many times.
The droid requires ~12.8k dps.
This is a parse of someone basically only spamming tracer missile doing 6.5k dps, so more than half of the required damage. And it was done after the arsenal nerf.
So you want to tell me a bolstered, well played level 50 can't do that?

Seriously, people have been complaining on the soft enrage timer on this boss since it came out. And back then, if memory serves, you had to have ~5k dps to beat it. Also back then, a Merc spamming RAPID SHOTS did almost 2k dps. It's not a gear or level issue, believe me. I have proven this time and again, most times even with videos on it, like this. And yes, this was 4.0, who cares? You can throw sh*t in Biowares direction all you want, but the scaling isn't that bad that this wouldn't still hold true.

Quote:
I can take a step back on my argument that mastermode flashpoints needs a item level requirement, but the fact remains that when i join a group for korriban, blood hunt, or any other enrageoriented-need to have good damage output-flashpoints, when a below level 70 dps is the group, there is not enough dps to complete it.
As outlined above, you actually only need average dps. Problem is, most people in group finder are bad. REALLY bad.

The problem is that the game doesn't give you any feedback on how good or bad you're doing. In order to see this in actual numbers, you need a third party programm.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
09.19.2017 , 12:43 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Torvai View Post
In bolstered content, yes, level and gear are pretty much irrellevant.
Yup, as I said before, during the DvsL event I went with my lvl 50 Shadow tank and managed to do Lost Island Master Mode.

Quote: Originally Posted by Torvai View Post
The droid requires ~12.8k dps.
This is a parse of someone basically only spamming tracer missile doing 6.5k dps, so more than half of the required damage. And it was done after the arsenal nerf.
So you want to tell me a bolstered, well played level 50 can't do that?

Seriously, people have been complaining on the soft enrage timer on this boss since it came out. And back then, if memory serves, you had to have ~5k dps to beat it. Also back then, a Merc spamming RAPID SHOTS did almost 2k dps. It's not a gear or level issue, believe me. I have proven this time and again, most times even with videos on it, like this. And yes, this was 4.0, who cares? You can throw sh*t in Biowares direction all you want, but the scaling isn't that bad that this wouldn't still hold true.

As outlined above, you actually only need average dps. Problem is, most people in group finder are bad. REALLY bad.

The problem is that the game doesn't give you any feedback on how good or bad you're doing. In order to see this in actual numbers, you need a third party programm.
As I said in the "Feedback on 242 gear limit" I know that the gear limit is not a 100% guarantee that you get good people as gear is really irrelevant in the game now due to Bolster. HOWEVER casual players are not exactly bothering to get 248 gear (not even 242 avg) so that means if the limit is set the casuals just wont get it. Sure, some bad ppl will eventually get rank 300 and start getting 246 and will be over 242 but its still a good way to ensure you get "raiders" or at least people with some idea into the FPS.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements before 5.9.2 67040

Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
09.19.2017 , 11:47 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
As I said in the "Feedback on 242 gear limit" I know that the gear limit is not a 100% guarantee that you get good people as gear is really irrelevant in the game now due to Bolster. HOWEVER casual players are not exactly bothering to get 248 gear (not even 242 avg) so that means if the limit is set the casuals just wont get it. Sure, some bad ppl will eventually get rank 300 and start getting 246 and will be over 242 but its still a good way to ensure you get "raiders" or at least people with some idea into the FPS.
You are probably right, a lot of players would be simply locked out of the FPs. But among them would also be a lot of players that aren't that bad or with a few pointers are well able to run the content without much problems.

I would prefer a method which makes a broader audience fit for the FPs. There are few enough running HC FPs currently, no need to diminish their numbers even further. Better bring something into the game to prepare more players for this sort of (group) content.

As a side node very few raiders I know are even interested in flashpoints at all, as those don't really pose a challenge or are for groups too small. Since the nerf of the decoration drops, there just isn't much of interest in there, if anything at all. Except for maybe farming CXP in Hammerstation.
And don't forget you are able to get 242 gear running only KP and EV, which are not hard to play at all. Even for casuals (casual in terms of interest into the game mechanics and rotations, not time spent) .
Freund werben, 7 Tage Probeabo: www.swtor.com/r/GJhHrY

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
09.20.2017 , 01:46 AM | #26
Well Keith has promised an improvement to the Groupfinder with missing roles being rewarded more, so I wonder what that will be and if it will bring the desired effect. I mean I have done all achievos for FPS and have no need to do them anymore. There is no reward for it.

However if I would see that for example they are missing a tank for long and if I que now as tank and finish the FPS I get some special reward I would be up for it.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements before 5.9.2 67040

Zerileth's Avatar


Zerileth
09.21.2017 , 10:50 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
Well Keith has promised an improvement to the Groupfinder with missing roles being rewarded more, so I wonder what that will be and if it will bring the desired effect. I mean I have done all achievos for FPS and have no need to do them anymore. There is no reward for it.

However if I would see that for example they are missing a tank for long and if I que now as tank and finish the FPS I get some special reward I would be up for it.
Just did Rishi MM. Level 50 dps and tank wouldn't stay out of stupid. The 50 wouldn't read/type in chat. Only 'til we got to final boss did we find out that 2 of our crew couldn't/wouldn't do the mechanics. We need Keith's improvements very soon. MM GF barely pops these days as it is.
No annoying, begging, misguiding referral link here

Johrun's Avatar


Johrun
10.07.2017 , 10:39 AM | #28
From my experience, tanks/healers with lower gear (unless below 288) rating are ok as long as one has higher. Healed BH in 230 (unaugmented). Tank was T4.
Low dps can be a real problem tho, especially if bosses have enrage or similar feature.

MrNihulus's Avatar


MrNihulus
10.07.2017 , 12:26 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Johrun View Post
From my experience, tanks/healers with lower gear (unless below 288) rating are ok as long as one has higher. Healed BH in 230 (unaugmented). Tank was T4.
Low dps can be a real problem tho, especially if bosses have enrage or similar feature.
I agree with healers being ok in lower gear (I also healed BH in 230 gear). But I am not sure about tanks since they will take more damage in lower tier gear and probably lose threat.
"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revanů and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."

Johrun's Avatar


Johrun
10.07.2017 , 02:39 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by MrNihulus View Post
I agree with healers being ok in lower gear (I also healed BH in 230 gear). But I am not sure about tanks since they will take more damage in lower tier gear and probably lose threat.
Correct, but most FPs are still doable. I managed to finish with no wipes Fractured master as 230 t (sith enities included), though admittedly healer was a wonder.