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Time To Update


Collec's Avatar


Collec
09.15.2017 , 03:37 AM | #1
It's time BW... it's time to update old vendors. With 7 strongholds now, you need to give us some option to purchase/copy decos we already got. One easy option is that you do,what guilds do..buy copy of decos for credits and make them BoP or BoL...same thing.
But if that is too much for you (and if it is,just shut down this game now) update old vendors in daily zones and across galaxy with old decos, where people need to be LEGEND level to get them for reputauion points/credits/etc.

You want people to do Depths of Manaan fp more? Throw Manaan/Selkath decos on that vendor on Manaan.
You want people to do more daily zones outside of your "bug" with CXP...throw old decos on those vendors.

GIVE US OPTION TO BUY THOSE DECOS WE ALREADY HAVE !!! Either with Cartel Coins,creditds,reputatuion points,certifikates,etc. And of course I mean just for ourselves,not to be able to sell on GTN. So you make it BoP or BoL it really doesn't matter.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
09.15.2017 , 06:08 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Collec View Post
With 7 strongholds now, you need to give us some option to purchase/copy decos we already got.
It is by no means *necessary*. This sounds more like "I want you to give us ...". If you mean that, say that.

There are essentially these classes of decoration source:
* In-game for-credits vendors. (Subtype: just credits. Subtype: requires some rep level or other.)
* In-game for-tokens vendors. The tokens remain available in-game. (Example: the BBA vendor that sells carbonite doodads for completed contracts. Example: the Prefab droids.(1))
* In-game for-tokens vendors where the tokens are no longer easily obtained, like Cartel Market Certificates.
* Drops from defeated enemies, bosses, and so on. Some of these enemies don't seem to drop decos any more.
* Cartel-Market direct purchases.
* Cartel-market packs.

Clearly the existing for-credits vendors aren't what you're talking about, and neither are the vendors who sell for event tokens (or, at least, not for events that still happen), and (probably) not direct CM purchases. I can't imagine why you'd feel it necessary to ask for this for the prefab droids either.

That leaves CM packs, CMCs (and similar), and defeated enemies.

There's no real technological reason why these couldn't be done. I think it would be reasonable(2) to impose a restriction that you can't buy them if you don't already have at least one from the "original" source. The hard part, though, is establishing a price. For an item previously available from a CM pack, you can make a case that the price should be in CCs, and it isn't monstrously hard to choose a reasonable figure(3), but how do you set the price of a one-in-73.6 drop from Gormak soldiers on Voss?

(1) The prefabs themselves are crafted, and the schematics are available from the trainers.

(2) "Reasonable" and "fair" are different things. I really mean "reasonable" here. I am not going to be drawn into a discussion of whether this is a "fair" restriction, thanks.

(3) I'd be tempted to start at the price of the individual pack type it came from, and then debate from there. You'd need some sort of weighting for things considered "cool" (high demand) versus "ugly-as-[REDACTED]" (low demand at best).
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
Buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-CHING!
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To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.

Collec's Avatar


Collec
09.15.2017 , 11:30 AM | #3
If you are BW employee I said everything in one sentence,while you started writing essay here...this was my sentence :
" GIVE US OPTION TO BUY THOSE DECOS WE ALREADY HAVE !!! " And even your quote of me says more than what you say....

Of course I am not talking about decos from vendors,where we can buy copies of them and those decos with prefabs
Of course I am talking about decos from CM.
AND YES IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE US THIS...THIS SHOULD ALREADY BE IN GAME FROM, WHEN STRONGHOLDS AND DECOS BECAME A THING !

Small hook decos - 10-20 CC / 10k-20k credits / 1 Cartel Market Certificates FOR 5 of those decos
if on vendors for Ziost comms or something like that,it can be more...like 1 small hook for 20 Ziost comms
Medium & Medium Narrow - 30-40 CC /30k-40k credits / 2 CMC for 3 decos
Large hooks - 40-50 CC/ 40k-50k/1 CMC for 1 deco
Centerpiece and Starship - 50-70 CC /100k-150k / 2-3 CMC for 1 decos

Price is so easy to set. You are not gonna charge 500k for a some container deco..or 300k for a chair..e.tc. same as 100-200 CC for 1 small deco where people would buy more of them.

This just from top of my head. Those decos that are interactive or have some animation can cost more. Personnel decos can cost 2-3x price of regular decos.
If you put decos on Manaan vendor, you'd buy them with Manaan relics. If you put decos on Ziost you'd buy them with Ziost comms...if you put decos on Black Hole vendors, you'd probably need reputation there first and then use BH comms...

AND AGAIN I ALREADY SAID THIS...it's for decos you have unlocked ! First you get deco from CM pack or buy from GTN...then you "unlock" option to buy copies of that deco for yourself only ! BoP or Bol doesn't matter,because it's same.

EHKodiak's Avatar


EHKodiak
09.15.2017 , 12:48 PM | #4
Part of me is adverse to it, because I make a lot of money from decos, and the other part of me is like "Well, I've unlocked it, why CAN'T I use multiples of it?"

I feel they won't do it because it'll take some of the goodness out of opening packs.

Collec's Avatar


Collec
09.15.2017 , 06:18 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by EHKodiak View Post
Part of me is adverse to it, because I make a lot of money from decos, and the other part of me is like "Well, I've unlocked it, why CAN'T I use multiples of it?"

I feel they won't do it because it'll take some of the goodness out of opening packs.
I said it multiple times now..you could only buy copies of decos you already have. Those new ones that come from CM packs you would either
a) buy CM pack(s) and pray to RNG
b) wait for other suckers to buy them and put them on GTN and you buy it from there

After that...once you unlock that deco,there should be some option to buy more copies of it for yourself only.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
09.16.2017 , 11:05 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Collec View Post
If you are BW employee I said everything in one sentence,
I'm *so* glad that when I wrote a post that says that your suggestion is reasonable, you think I'm a BW employee. Where did you drag that up from?

And yes, of course it's easy to set a price. All you have to do is pick a number out of the air. What's hard is setting a correct (hint: first define that: good luck, you'll need it) price. I'd say that yours are probably too low, or at least that BioWare would think so.

Consider: a CM pack costs around 200CCs and drops on average about one deco per two or three packs, something like that. That implies that the per-deco cost is on the order of 500CCs. Heck, even if it is one deco every pack (it isn't), that would be 200 CCs per deco. Yes, of course, you get other things in the packs, so divide the 200 by (in modern packs) 5, giving at least 40 CCs per deco. Suddenly selling them for 10-20 CCs isn't conducive to further pack sales. This is why I say that regardless of what you or I think, they wouldn't agree on 10-20 CCs per deco.

CMC-sourced decos are a different story. Ultimately, the problem isn't the availability of the decos themselves. If you have the CMCs, go to the vendor and buy the decos. The problem is the availability of the CMCs - there's a whole lot of other things you can buy with them (interesting armour sets, speeders, weapons, etc.), so an additional source of CMCs would be a good thing.

And of course that leads me to something else. The issue you highlight is in no way limited to decorations. What do I do if I'd like a copy of Thana Vesh's armour? Can I buy it on the CM? (Perhaps, during one week, at some ill-defined future time.) Can I find it on the GTN? (Maybe. Depends who has one lying around that he wants to get rid of.) Where else? Ah, over there, at one of the CMC vendors in the Cartel Bazaar on the Fleet. For CMCs. Which brings us back to the CMC problem.

So, to recap. Is this type of vendor a good idea? Yes, probably. Is it automatically easy to set a reasonable price? No, not really, partly because "reasonable" is a teeny tiny bit subjective. Is it in any way *necessary*? No. The game functions without it(1). Even strongholds function without it, especially when you consider that the main pressure on decoration supplies these days is from Conquest, and that doesn't require anything but running around placing whatever junk you have. Endless rows of Basic Metal Chairs, Companions, speeders, pets, beds, shelves, and so on. But it *is* a good idea.

(1) We *need* air, water, food, and things (clothes, housing) to protect us from the weather. Anything else is a luxury.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
Buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-CHING!
PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.

Sinhammer's Avatar


Sinhammer
09.20.2017 , 11:38 PM | #7
They really do need to do something to rein in the ridiculous decorations pricing, and unlocks seems to be the best option. A good example is the Yavin Head Sculpture. Thankfully I only wanted one for the stronghold and pulled one from a pack. But someone has it up for 100m right now on my server. There's no way any silver-tier item is worth that. I came back to the game 2 months ago after a long absence and was appalled at the laughable decor prices. Thankfully I had the credits to not worry about it already, but I can't imagine what it must be like for any new players.

Unless, of course, they don't want new players...
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
----Darth Wolfhammer Hellstorm of Star Forge----

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
09.21.2017 , 06:42 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinhammer View Post
They really do need to do something to rein in the ridiculous decorations pricing, and unlocks seems to be the best option.
I think you mean "improved availability". The unlocks being discussed here are *one* way to improve availability, but not the only one. I think they have an advantage over all other possibilities of simplicity from a user-experience point of view, but only really for CM-pack decos.

For CM-pack decos: a category in Collections, with all the decos listed, and a "buy another" button on each one. Yeah, I know, now you just have to set a price. I'd be inclined to do the basic division hinted at above: one deco per pack out of five items in the pack means that deco is priced at one fifth of the pack's basic price. We could argue about whether there should be a markup because you can buy exactly the one you want rather than having to rely on the non-existent goodwill of the Mistress of Pain, aka the goddess Fortuna.

For CMC decos: for these, all that's necessary is an improved supply of CMCs. If CMCs are more common, ALL items on the CMC vendors will be easier to get. Well. If we also have a supply of reputation tokens.

For mob-drop decos: that's a case of adjusting the loot tables. If they drop more often, they will be easier to get and the GTN prices will drop.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
Buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-CHING!
PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.

ceciltaru's Avatar


ceciltaru
09.21.2017 , 07:08 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I think you mean "improved availability". The unlocks being discussed here are *one* way to improve availability, but not the only one. I think they have an advantage over all other possibilities of simplicity from a user-experience point of view, but only really for CM-pack decos.

For CM-pack decos: a category in Collections, with all the decos listed, and a "buy another" button on each one. Yeah, I know, now you just have to set a price. I'd be inclined to do the basic division hinted at above: one deco per pack out of five items in the pack means that deco is priced at one fifth of the pack's basic price. We could argue about whether there should be a markup because you can buy exactly the one you want rather than having to rely on the non-existent goodwill of the Mistress of Pain, aka the goddess Fortuna.

For CMC decos: for these, all that's necessary is an improved supply of CMCs. If CMCs are more common, ALL items on the CMC vendors will be easier to get. Well. If we also have a supply of reputation tokens.

For mob-drop decos: that's a case of adjusting the loot tables. If they drop more often, they will be easier to get and the GTN prices will drop.
I'm not sure why the pricing is a problem for buying another deco through the collection interface. the same thing is available for guilds, and the pricing should be the same, which i'm guessing is based off the rarity (bronze/silver/gold) of the item.

the decoration market is currently being held hostage by people looking to make lots of money because BW didn't have a system in place from the get go, that would allow individuals the same freedom in decorating that guilds were able to enjoy. coupling decorations to RNG packs which they keep changing up how many new items they give you anyway, means the market for decorations is extremely volatile. its ridiculous. i can't even make 50M off a hypercrate for an old pack right now, but someone wants that for a single decoration from the previous pack? please.

Xina_LA's Avatar


Xina_LA
09.21.2017 , 08:10 AM | #10
I spend a lot of time on the GTN buying and selling pack items. I actually spend more time working deals in the GTN than doing anything else. Over the last several years, I have noticed the inflation on decoration prices has been far worse than for any other category of items I track. Worse than armor, companions, mounts, pets, emotes, titles, and so on. Something needs to be adjusted.

This has been made worse by the new style of dropping items from packs. There are no longer Bronze decorations, so none of them are common enough that the GTN prices are low for awhile after release. There was a time that we could pick up a dozen chairs for a reasonable amount of credits when a pack was new, but now we're lucky to afford one of each item in a pack. Buying a hypercrate used to mean getting at least 1 of each new item in a pack, at least all the bronze and silver items. Now you're lucky to get 3-4 decos for the $20+ you spent.

Since I started playing several years ago, I have never seen a change in the core list of decorations available for direct purchase from the Cartel Market. I have rarely seen sales. I have only seen new items added temporarily for the winter holidays. Although we now occasionally get packs of themed items (IE: Deepwater Decoration Bundle), we don't get single items or variations on existing items.


Here is what I would like to see changed:

* Make the space battle decoration vendors work just like the PVP decoration vendors. Once you reach a certain rank, you can buy as many of a particular item as you want.

* Add variant items to Felucia Stato's selection. By variant, I mean the same items in different colors. For example, I have seen the Simple Merchants Rug in the game in four different colors, but Felucia only offers one. The items already exist, so hopefully it's not as difficult to add them as to create new items.

* Add more decorations to the Cartel Market and change them out once a month. These don't have to be rare items, just useful items that were found in older packs.

* Felucia has a sister. Create her as a vendor and add more basic items -- chairs, tables, desks, shelves, and so forth.

* Make more items available for copying to a Guild, using the Purchase For Guild option. For example, all the Rakata decorations that come from the vendor on Fleet.

* Make decorations Bronze, Silver, and Gold again when dropping from new packs. The whole idea of retiring Bronze was that the new decorations would be more detailed, interactive, and higher quality. Based on the last two packs, that is clearly NOT the case. Not only are the decos more simplified in design and able to use fewer hooks, they are sometimes just a variant of an existing decoration. (Nobody is going to convince me a red hex or green bar light is a Silver grade deco.)

* Increase the limit of Felucia Stato decorations so that we can have a deco vendor at every stronghold.

* Release Bronze/Silver/Gold decoration packs more often. Re-release old packs more often. ADVERTISE it so that people know it's in the Cartel Market and don't miss the sale.
--=# Decorating addict of Satele Shan server. #=--