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Re-hire your old flashpoint designers.....


DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
08.29.2017 , 11:25 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by tonatoprice View Post
Those FPs also dropped some nice gear. Now you get nothing out of them, so it's not surprising people are "skipping" them. I myself would never list for Umbara Master with players I don't know. Just a waste of time...
This is it.

It's not that people don't like difficult content, its just why do difficult content when the payout is a dinky cxp pack. CoU is a classic example, the first boss encounter is over-tuned in damage output, and the amount of damage going out is pretty rough for pugs to handle. The other boss constantly knocks you around and is vanishing in and out. Plus you have turrets that do alot of damage spawning all over the place, and a grapple + shotgun combo that does stupid amounts of damage. It's a tough fight for pugs. "Fun challenge?" Sure, but what are the rewards? Dinky cxp pack, wasted time, no crafting mats, and a large repair bill.

I'm all for challenging content, I've done BH, BoR, LI, etc in MM a bunch of times. With a decent pug group they are very doable and fun to do. CoU is the first FP I feel is abit over the top just for the sake of being over the top, and the rewards and hassle to complete this (in MM) are not worth it. It's currently right there with BH where people insta-quit when it pops. Can't blame them, tbh.

So yes, challenging content is fun, but why bother when someone can just spam HS or Athiss and get a larger payout, don't jhave to worry about gear requirements, and its easier and faster in time.

Frankly, the whole FP system is a mess; too bad BW doesn't have the resources these day to go through and intelligently rethink some of these fights and tune them correctly.
server: The Hot Prospect (10/4/2017 #NEVERFORGET)
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Johrun's Avatar


Johrun
09.01.2017 , 04:37 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Slurmez View Post
Manaan, Rishi, Bloodhunt, Korriban, Tython, Legacy of Rakata and now Umbra are all cancerous flashpoints, people see them pop up in the group finder (for master) then just leave and wait 10 minutes because its just not worth it.

The mechanics arent fun, just hard, the areas are pure bleah and there is no reward to speak of in terms of the effort. Whoever designs them is doing a terrible, terrible job.
I dislike Legacy of Rakata (boring imo), but I can beat them all. It's about knowing your class/tactics. I healed BH as 230 operative (admittedly tank was a 248) and it went well.

HiveOracle's Avatar


HiveOracle
09.01.2017 , 06:10 AM | #23
Hm, aside of the fact that I feel they either simply overtuned the amount of damage, or overtuned the amoutn of mechanic interaction. The first is just annoying ,as the numbers game is easy enought for BW to run.
The second is a somewhat fickly design choice imo, with e.g. the second tython boss that calls his robots tons of times during a single fight, even though he is fairly tnaky himself. And there's plenty other examples out there were Boss health/amoutn of mechanics just doesn#t really add up.

I think the second one is a main problem. Stuff like LI and such offered rewards for following the tactics as well as punishments for doing them good. it wasn't just a case of 'click the console for the sav-rip and he comes back down after he finishes his first 10 second phase.' or something liek that, it was a 'the faster the team get#s to all 3 and get#s them channeled, the faster the bos sis back down dealing more manageable damage.
We need mechanics that don#t just punish but lalso reward again, which would also help with gear gaps as you oculd get mroe otu of palyer skill from them.

Though, as usual in these discussions, My main point is fairly simple:
The players nowadays are frigging useless. Slow down leveling (especialy for newbies) by 50-75%, and remove the tactical ******** from vet fp's. If folks want to run an fp without a tank/healer they can simply run SM's now. But it as someone who has done fp's massively ever since 2.0, I got to say the randoms you get in HM/MM now oftentimes don#t even know the basics about the role split, simple stuff like that dps are NOT supposed to attack first and all such things.
Sure, those existed in the past as well, but nowadays it's hard to do a single pug without premades in it that doesn't have such a problem (TRE, Imp side).
Back in the 'good' old days full role-dependent Leveling fp's made sure a lot of the people had time to learn at least what their role in general is supposed to do in flashpoints, which greatly improved the quality of randoms for MM at least in the way that they knew what they were getting into.
(And just in case anyone mentions the 'but there wer elong que times for dps' thing, BW simply needs to put some sort of incentive on fp's for the roles required, and peopel will paly it. many people that actually do try otu tanking/healing a bit in gorup content do stick with it in my experience, but mroe than half the palyers i talk to never even tried it i nthe first place nowadays because why shoudl they?)

bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
09.01.2017 , 08:23 AM | #24
I think the Technician's shotgun is a little overtuned. As infiltration it does ~85 damage to me in one GCD (~45k initial hit and two follow up ticks for ~20k each, all within 1.5 sec according to starparse). Maybe if the bleed ticks were spread out and cleanseable, or if there's a mechanic I've missed to force that attack on the tank (assuming it's K/E damage) it would be easier. But 90k damage in 1.5 secs when there is other damage from the assassin and possibly turrets is pretty hefty.

Alssaran's Avatar


Alssaran
09.10.2017 , 01:35 AM | #25
Here's the thing: Beyond the Alliance Research Data, there is absolutely no reason to do Umbara instead of one of the easier flashpoints. And, quite honestly, that's a good thing. Umbara has just terrible and borderline inexperienced encounter design.

The scattergun on the first boss is way too overtuned, with nearly 90k damage over one and a half second being way too much for 95% of all pug groups to even come close to healing/surviving. The second boss feels like it's glitched. I think it's supposed to knock you back, jump randomly around, and eventually phase out and into the fight. The issue is that it's just bad design. It's not bugged. It's not hard. It's bad design.

Bioware seems to have a thing to add wild knockbacks to any fight and call those "mechanics." Bioware, I'm serious: Your knockback designs are the worst in any MMORPG out there. They're not fun. They are not engaging. For any melee, they are downright frustrating. Having an occasional knockback is fine, but the Alpha Slybex and the boss assassin just take it to new levels. They are constantly knocking back the tank. It feels like I can't even "play" my own character. It appears like I'm more stunned and unable to play than I am actually able to play.

And what's the reward for putting up with overtuned damage and frustrating mechanics with a pug group?

The exact same reward I would get for a simple Athiss/Hammer Station/Esseless run. I'm currently farming the research data on my guardian. I'm at 55. Once I hit 75 next week, I am never going to set another foot into Umbara for months. I am just going to take off a piece of gear to disqualify for the 242 rating and call it a day. It just feels frustrating, bugged and way too overtuned just for the sake of "being overtuned" to be considered fun.

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Racit's Avatar


Racit
09.10.2017 , 07:01 AM | #26
None of the above mentioned flash points have a significant dps check at all. Nim brontes burn phase has a dps check. Nim styrak has a dps check, over 15 minutes of it. The first boss of blood hunt is laughable if you're dps know how to peel and burst adds. Assuming everyone knows what their cooldowns are.

I am all for making flash points easier for the casual player, but better drops is just silly. Hell, you have the chance of getting 244 crap gear for no body in the raid on nim bosses currently.

Gearing should go back to having to get entry level from fps and progress from there. That will never happen as long as sm op bolster and ev/kp hm are a thing.