I'm just asking, I just completed four veteran flashpoints today recently, and all of my team members did dark side, like choosing the killing the innocent NPCs, injured slaves in korriban and even for no reason at all, for example, my agent did ds in class story because she was brainwashed so did a several revenge cutscenes with dark side options, ok, that was it because there was a reason. but those people I played with mostly doing it for fun, are you sadist or something? because I see no reason killing a npc asking me to don't close off a generator because they were getting power from it, I allowed it, but I bet sith players would kill it in cold blood or even force choke.

 

I know this is just a game, but makes me wonder

 

discuss

 

EDIT: I'm a light side agent, (mostly) and yes, I choosed to defeat hunter in my chapter 3, also killed the sith who asked me to deliver the black box, no regret at all

Edited September 9, 2017 by ShieldProtection

Being a bad guy in RL gets you jail time or a less than favourable response from the neighbours etc etc.

 

Being a bad guy in the game doesn't have any stigma or whatever. I'd argue that being LS is fairly boring too as some of the best scenes in the game are DS.

 

I have a lightside Agent and Sorc as I want to see it from the other side. Not that I can play my agent....and I find my DS Assassin dull as dishwater to play.

 

Then there's the whole bad *** thing as well.

Most of the time during flashpoints I'll just tap 1,2 and or 3 ... not really bothered what the outcome is.

It's fun to be the bad guy from time to time but in reality I would never do many of the things my characters do...and it doesn't matter if they're light or darkside actually. In fact the light side has so many cringeworthy, one-dimensional choices that it's not so much an obssession with the dark side but an aversion to BW's version of the light side.

I just find the whole Jedi lightside philosophy completely flawed. No emotion? C'mon.

I just find the whole Jedi lightside philosophy completely flawed. No emotion? C'mon.

 

That's called sociopathy/psychopathy in most manuals. That and the Jedi seem just as ruthless except they don't enjoy themselves.

Because most people don't role play their characters as themselves

That's called sociopathy/psychopathy in most manuals. That and the Jedi seem just as ruthless except they don't enjoy themselves.

 

Not feeling emotion is neither sociopathy nor psychopathy - in pretty much any manual. However, it's still not healthy. I find both the Jedi and Sith philosophies deeply flawed. Denying you have any emotions at all vs. letting your emotions dictate your actions. Neither side is really a good way to go through life.

 

Also, the Jedi are kinda hypocritical. They're not supposed to become attached to anything or care about anything so why do they bother to fight? They really shouldn't care if something is right or wrong. But the Sith are also hypocritical; if they always let their emotions dictate their actions the Imperial society would be too chaotic to survive.

 

All that said, all but one of my characters is light side and will mostly choose light side actions, with the occasional dark side one thrown in. My only dark side character is dark side solely because of Diplomacy missions.

Not feeling emotion is neither sociopathy nor psychopathy - in pretty much any manual.

It is when it's about not feeling any remorse, which is an emotion.

 

Still in a general sense you are correct of course.

I was always light side, until recently. In terms of LI, I prefer dark side. I'm jealous of the Jaesa relationship.

It is when it's about not feeling any remorse, which is an emotion.

 

Still in a general sense you are correct of course.

 

Hmm, yeah I could see that on the sociopathy scale. Psychopathy, however, is *typically* marked by aggressive, irrational and often violent behavior.

 

Trust me, I'm totally an expert. I took Psych 101 in college.

Not feeling emotion is neither sociopathy nor psychopathy - in pretty much any manual. However, it's still not healthy. I find both the Jedi and Sith philosophies deeply flawed. Denying you have any emotions at all vs. letting your emotions dictate your actions. Neither side is really a good way to go through life.

 

Fair point. What I should have said really that having an attachment to only certain emotions, sociopaths spend their existences chasing a way to fill the hole. Psychopaths do whatever they want with no care for repercussions nor are they afflicted by conscience.

 

Do jedi regret anytime they kill something? Maybe for two minutes or even seconds. Look at the end of Attack on Typhon, gravely wounded Sith on the ground, swipe, dead, the Jedi didn't even blink.

 

In any case, they are both deeply flawed philosophies. Fear is on both sides. Grey Jedi or whatever have it dead on.

I just find the whole Jedi lightside philosophy completely flawed. No emotion? C'mon.

 

This IMO is the stumbling block on this entire topic. Light and Dark Sides are doctrines, not moralities. Bioware sledgehammered it into their Paragon/Renegade system when it really didn't fit.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Arlanon

This IMO is the stumbling block on this entire topic. Light and Dark Sides are doctrines, not moralities. Bioware sledgehammered it into their Paragon/Renegade system when it really didn't fit.

 

Yeah, makes sense if you look at it this way. However who's to say both parties interpret their respective codes in the wrong way. Is that what the proponents intended?

 

You can be peaceful with emotions, you can be a mass murderer with no emotions.

 

Victory is open to interpretation and can lead to more chains never mind breaking them.

 

I could go on.

 

Dogmas are just that, dogmas.

I play either DS or LS when it makes sense for my character. That means, my Juggernaut was mainly DS, but sometimes I chose to answer LS, because it would've made more sense to do so. Blindly going DS (or LS) is sometimes not the best choice. My smuggler is mainly LS, but has his DS moments, also depending on if it makes sense to both character and story.

 

In any way, whatever option I choose for my character has nothing specifically to do with what I would choose to do in the same situation. But then I'm neither a bounty hunter nor a jedi knight.

It's often just to speed things up. When you force the captives on Korriban to fight with you, it's marginally more dps. When you choose to kill off the cyborgs on Rakata Prime, it's to avoid adds. It's not always like that with every decision, but it's often to get the flashpoint finished as fast as possible. After all, Yoda does admit that the Dark Side is quicker and easier.

I'm just asking...

 

Probably because the internet allows people to get their "inner gangster" fed without possibility of actual harm.

 

Same with the forum... much of what goes on in the forum is a lot of gangster style exaggerated ranting, raving, and hollow threats behind the safety of ones computer screen.

Probably because the internet allows people to get their "inner gangster" fed without possibility of actual harm.

 

Same with the forum... much of what goes on in the forum is a lot of gangster style exaggerated ranting, raving, and hollow threats behind the safety of ones computer screen.

 

OMG THIS IS SO WRONG! I WILL KILL EVERYONE AND DESTROY THE ENTIRE GALAXY TO ...

 

*frantically presses the Escape button*

 

Woops, sorry, accidentally chose the DS option there. What I meant to say was, this is also likely one of the reasons. And, as others have said, can't do these sorts of things IRL (not that anyone who plays would actually want to) and these are just pixels. No one real is actually getting harmed.

because it's the myth of accepting the devil for power. and it's more dramatic, even romantic in some aspect of this choice. Edited September 9, 2017 by Thaladan

If you pay attention to any of the Jedi teachers in the game, you'd know the Jedi don't condone sociopathy or believe that there is no such thing as emotion. Satele and Syo have both emphasized the importance of compassion. Satele tells the Knight to carefully reflect on whenever they take a life, because it should only be done as a last resort.

 

They believe it is important to not lose control of one's emotions because The Force can amplify the effect drastically and cause terrible things to happen. Orgus summarized this belief by saying "A Jedi destroyed by passion becomes something terrible." Now you could certainly argue their flaw is that they are too restrictive in their philosophy but given the history of what happens when Jedi fall to the Dark Side, they have good reason to be concerned. The Jedi Consular even has the option to tell Nadia that her training is meant to help her handle her emotions, not cut her off from them. Similarly, the rule against attachments is not "Don't care about anything, even right and wrong."

 

It's so Jedi don't become SO attached one to thing or person(s) that they act to the detriment of the greater good. Because the Jedi Order sees it's duty to protect the Republic and all the people.

 

Again, that is certainly something that is arguably too restrictive, or not always right, but it's not a black and white issue. Kira will recognize the merits of the rule, even as she herself breaks it, if the Jedi Knight rescues her in the final Knight class mission.

 

Although, in TOR, the Jedi Order seems to include members that don't fully live up to either ideal. Duras Fain is not only a Jedi Master, he's actually close friends with one of the Jedi Council, despite being regarded as "an undisciplined maverick.". The Jedi Council are all close personal friends and even the Grandmaster herself has a child. That suggests that it isn't even meant to be an unforgivable, inviolable rule.

 

The Jedi Code is largely aspirational. I mean, "There is no ignorance, there is knowledge" doesn't make any sense otherwise. "Ignorance" is a relative term and "knowledge" doesn't have an end point. The Jedi Order realizes this and it's often emphasized that the wisest Jedi will keep learning throughout their life.

Edited September 9, 2017 by OldVengeance

No Consequences. Nobody *Real staring back at them. The Internet. The stigma of "Dark Side", Evil.

I just find the whole Jedi lightside philosophy completely flawed. No emotion? C'mon.

 

The mantra is not to be taken at face value- Jedi aren't emotionless robots. That's both impossible and counterproductive to other very important aspects of their belief. Jedi are also supposed to be compassionate and uphold truth and justice. No emotion driving their faith in these morals would leave them hovering dangerously on the precipice of apathy.

 

What Bioware and a lot of players seem to misunderstand is that Jedi aren't emotionless, they simply need to be in control of their emotions and use logic to make their decisions in spite of their feelings. What they aren't supposed to do is form attachments which run high risk of influencing one's decisions- they need to be able to let go of things and be at peace with that.

 

But beyond that, these are ideals. They're the exception, not the rule. A lot of Jedi struggle with these things when they're young, and some struggle with them their entire life. One doesn't just lose all capability to feel emotion when they become a Jedi, and that was never the intent. The intent is to find peace in the truth that you can't hold on to things forever, and to uphold your morals even though there are sometimes tragic casualties as the price of being a protector and peacekeeper.

 

In the end, just like Sith, Jedi are still people, after all. They have friendships, hobbies, talents and skills outside of combat and ambitions in life. Being a Jedi or Sith doesn't comprise one's entire personality, even if it may sometimes eclipse it.

 

More to the point of the topic, I can't say for certain why people like Dark Side gameplay so much, as I don't partake in it myself- but I imagine as with Light Side gameplay, there are a lot of reasons why one might favour it. Maybe for the drama of it, maybe just to roleplay something different from themselves, maybe they're just a fan of the Sith and want their character to embrace what that means.

 

There are a lot of reasons, some I can understand, some a little less so- but as far as I'm concerned, so long as they know it's just a game and they don't hurt themselves or anyone else in real life, I don't care what they do with their character at all.

Edited September 9, 2017 by SourOrange

If you pay attention to any of the Jedi teachers in the game, you'd know the Jedi don't condone sociopathy or believe that there is no such thing as emotion. Satele and Syo have both emphasized the importance of compassion. Satele tells the Knight to carefully reflect on whenever they take a life, because it should only be done as a last resort.

 

They believe it is important to not lose control of one's emotions because The Force can amplify the effect drastically and cause terrible things to happen. Orgus summarized this belief by saying "A Jedi destroyed by passion becomes something terrible." Now you could certainly argue their flaw is that they are too restrictive in their philosophy but given the history of what happens when Jedi fall to the Dark Side, they have good reason to be concerned. The Jedi Consular even has the option to tell Nadia that her training is meant to help her handle her emotions, not cut her off from them. Similarly, the rule against attachments is not "Don't care about anything, even right and wrong."

 

It's so Jedi don't become SO attached one to thing or person(s) that they act to the detriment of the greater good. Because the Jedi Order sees it's duty to protect the Republic and all the people.

 

Again, that is certainly something that is arguably too restrictive, or not always right, but it's not a black and white issue. Kira will recognize the merits of the rule, even as she herself breaks it, if the Jedi Knight rescues her in the final Knight class mission.

 

Although, in TOR, the Jedi Order seems to include members that don't fully live up to either ideal. Duras Fain is not only a Jedi Master, he's actually close friends with one of the Jedi Council, despite being regarded as "an undisciplined maverick.". The Jedi Council are all close personal friends and even the Grandmaster herself has a child. That suggests that it isn't even meant to be an unforgivable, inviolable rule.

 

The Jedi Code is largely aspirational. I mean, "There is no ignorance, there is knowledge" doesn't make any sense otherwise. "Ignorance" is a relative term and "knowledge" doesn't have an end point. The Jedi Order realizes this and it's often emphasized that the wisest Jedi will keep learning throughout their life.

 

So what you're saying is ... the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

You are Sith.

 

Most people play as their currently chosen side, aka Light side for Jedi or Dark side for Sith.

 

Play a Scoundrel, see the difference!

Maybe that's because most of the time Dark Side options in this game make way more sense than the LS alternative, although both are, in general, equally cringeworthy.

 

I don't think I've at least one full DS/LS toon, most are neutral with the sole exception of Jedi Knight (LS1) and Sith Warrior (DS1, Neutral leaning)