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GSF Discussion: Friction Points

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF Discussion: Friction Points
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Kaisiet's Avatar


Kaisiet
08.14.2017 , 09:07 PM | #291
Let me start by saying thank you to the devs for opening up these avenues of discussion regarding GSF. That being said, I don't particularly like the way this thread was opened, I think it pigeon holed responses into a few narrow categories and didn't immediately elicit the information they were looking for. I interpreted this thread more as what outside of ship balance and itemization would make GSF better and more appealing. I have no doubt at least one of these ideas has been suggested already, if not all three, but thought it couldn't hurt to add my support to them. The first is a more comprehensive tutorial. Even allowing additional ship types to be accessed would go a long way in providing new players some experience before diving into the deep end. Secondly, resources not withstanding, and my favorite idea, a custom matchmaking lobby. Allow those who want hypercompetitive matches, stock matches, strike only matches, etc to set them up without having to try to queue sync with four separate groups and without interfering with the traditional matchmaker or interrupting the experience of the casual flyers learning the game. Most pilots I speak with really want competitive matches, win or lose and this would provide and avenue for that. Lastly some free flying open space. Anything that would allow vets to test builds/components or even spend some time teaching without the time or contribution restrictions placed by an actual match would go a long way in furthering the community that many have worked hard to build as well as the overall understanding of the game. As for friction itself, I am probably not the best to comment on that as I am a huge fan of the game mode and am generally queued if I am in game, and nothing has scared me off to this point.

Desplain's Avatar


Desplain
08.27.2017 , 11:21 AM | #292
It would help to stop the spawn point camping.
Opponents just waiting at the battleship or near by and you can't escape.
Your ship is respawning, bang dead.

It would really help if the battleships would be rearmed.
May the Force be with you.

wbtusmc's Avatar


wbtusmc
08.30.2017 , 07:02 AM | #293
I played GSF for the first time ever yesterday.

I am between projects at work so I went home early instead of twiddling my thumbs. Being bored, I figured I'd look into GSF since there was a CXP bonus for it and it seems to be on CXP bonus more than anything else.

I did the tutorial which seemed simple enough but in my first 5-8 matches I had something like 200 damage and 10-15 deaths.

It wasn't until I watched the GSF videos on youtube, specifically the GSF School ones, that I actually figured out the basics of tracking my target, using the throttle, shields, and weapons, and figured out how to use the class skills.

By the end of the day, I was performing mid-tier (approximately 15-20k damage) with a somewhat decently geared strike fighter (blindly following the build guides online) and having fun with it.

To answer your questions:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Here are some things to consider to get the conversation started:
Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
It is steep. People don't realize this is a game unto itself. I did not. This is MMO PVP meets FPS meets Flight Sim and you can't just hop into something like that and expect to perform well. The resources are there though if you want to get better.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
To be honest, I have no idea. I initially poked around at other ships but figured that if I were going to contribute to my team at all, then I'd have to focus on one specific ship (in this case the Rycer or whatever SF). As a brand new player I have no idea which ship is better and why, other than bombers are hard to bring down even if I get a jump on them and gunships are the FPS snipers and you cant approach them directly.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
Matchmaking issues?
The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
It would be nice to have legacy based ships but I really don't mind either way. It took me one day of slow queues to get my first ship somewhat decent (I assume) so I think the gear up issue is where it should be.

As far as matchmaking, perhaps if you had a regs and ranked queues, you could allow the veterans better competition amongst each other and noobs time to learn without being one-shotted (population dependent of course (x-server?)). More often than not, I found myself getting annihilated by the same people over and over and over.

Haooll's Avatar


Haooll
08.30.2017 , 03:55 PM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by UlaVii View Post
... Additionally, the system should auto-kick people that are inactive for 2 minutes and by that I mean not contributing at all. Some just sit at the base ship and when you initiate a vote kick against them they nudge their ship forwards which cancels the kick vote.
Whilst I agree with this for the most part, it runs into one major problem with players like me who are quite happy to contribute deploying a hyperspace beacon and then fly about doing very little from a damage point of view (if any) purely to keep the usefulness of it there for my teammates. This frequently gives me the "you are not contributing ..." message, however I would argue I am in that it can make a major difference in a tight game if on re-spawn your teammates can spawn a lot closer to the target area(s) than the original spawn points, i.e. 4-5 seconds and back in fight rather than 10-15 ...

As soon as I die the beacon disappears so to me it makes sense to deploy it and stay out of trouble flying near it to protect it, but if enemy never find it or don't realize, then I get very little if any damage/kills but the team benefit greatly.

2 minutes of not contributing kills this play style which is valid from a team match perspective.

I guess there could be a check to see if ship/player had deployed a beacon before kicking though which would solve the problem.

ironrd's Avatar


ironrd
08.30.2017 , 05:14 PM | #295
I'm the PVP officer of a sizeable guild on EH, I've run 'star fighter nights' as part of my quarterly game plan for the past 2 quarters to help step players who avoid star fighter into a better understanding of it. As a guild we get 30-40 people a night online, I manage to convince 5 or 6 to group up for star fighter.

The learning curve being too high? Newer players have a lot to learn, it's one of the things I appreciate about star fighter, it's extremely team based and has layers of understanding to it. I've played for year now, and even now I take a second look at a ship and consider tweaking a build. When I manage to coach a newer player into landing their first kill shot, which can take a couple of matches depending on the competition, I can usually hook them into being interested by the next night. There really isn't instant gratification with this, I'm not sure there should be. Better tutorials or a hands-on simulator might help, you queue into a warzone by yourself chasing npc training dummy targets just so you can get hands on experience flying and targeting. New players trying to learn how to move their ship against highly skilled pilots that populate the queues? I end up sounding like Stuart Smalley over discord, because they feel completely helpless.

Is ship balance preventing you from playing? I appreciate the diversity of ships and the way they compliment each other.

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in? Tactics. The problem with the matches never really changing is that the tactics become incredibly stale, making the matches frustratingly boring. The infrequency of the queue can also be problematic. In unranked PVP, you have arena matches to expedite pops when the population queuing is low. If there were new GSF match types that capitalized on smaller teams in more confined spaces, I could see it drastically increasing pops outside of peak server hours. If we added new content, more compact content might work better than larger scaled content.

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy? I have 8 characters. All 8 characters are completely bought out of every (non-cartel) ship with the same exact components with only a few variants in the name of experimentation. I struggle to see a downside to this, since your star fighter hanger is pretty much separated from the rest of your character.

Eztro's Avatar


Eztro
09.05.2017 , 09:19 AM | #296
Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
No - but its not really that relevant. New players can be amazing pilots and still get turned to paste by the 6 gunships waiting to eat them for lunch. It’s less of a learning curve and more of a “the only people left are the masochists that suffered through getting a ship geared to make it survivable and now want to make you suffer like they did.” After about 5 matches I got really good at evading, but I was never able to kill anything. After 15 or so matches I figured out that “flying” was not part of GSF. After 30 more I had a pretty well geared gunship and was actually killing things. After 30 more, the shame of snipe camping overcame me and I swapped to bombers (I even had a short stint in an anti GS scout… but no one can survive a pair of GS’s covering themselves. Add a 3rd and there is no way you will even get close.) So if your new, don't waste time with anything else, get a GS and learn to use it.

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
Yes - completely this. You have 2 options for ships in this game. Bombers or Gunships. Even on a fantastic scout you still can’t out maneuver the fleet of gunships that everyone seems to swap to. Also - gunship deployment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You can have a whole team of GS's facing a whole team of GS's for some of the most boring “who will catch who at less than 15k 1st ‘dogfighting’" ever imagined. Gunships are too mobile, too well armored and need 0 support. If you get caught with your pants down in a GS, it should cost you. Right now, it doesn't. You just boost out, and pull your pursuer into the field of other GSs greedily waiting to pounce and watch them get vaporized while you find another spot to snipe from. In almost every match I have played recently, we start off with a mix of ships, each side figures out that the “fun” ship they were going to play isn’t going to work and they swap to a GS or a bomber.

Bombers are a lot more fun to play (IMO - ymmv), but they shouldn’t be your only viable choice to stave off GS Armageddon every match.

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
It would be great if there were fleet events, or invasion events where you were called to support.

You know what would be awesome? The ability to call in support bots or drones from your flagships – Like calling in scout support to swarm GS nests. Or giving strike fighters HARM missiles that can fire and forget on ships that are actively tracking them (like say… a gunship painting them -or anyone else- for a free-kill snipe. Force the GS driver (yes, driver… tanks don’t have pilots, sorry) to think before they sit back with their gun charged up ready to pounce on whoever comes into range). It seems I have an issue with gunships…

Microrant incoming – My biggest problem with the GS isn’t even that its ridiculously configured, it’s that I HATE driving one. I just can’t stand it. But for a long time, it’s all I would play because it was the fastest way to collect medals. So, I hate driving them and hate flying anything else when there is a fleet of them in the air. So yeah, just delete the gunship altogether and I’ll be happy =)

Companions - It would also be cool to be able to take your GS crew members as companions. I'd love the chance to get companions you can only earn by GSF achievement.

Matchmaking issues?
Considering it seems like only the same 20 or so people ever play, it seems like when they want a match, they get one. And if you are one of those guys, you already know who is new and who isn’t, so you know who to focus on from the word go – further punishing the new players. It would be fantastic if you didn’t see who you were fighting (how does it make sense to know the loadout and name of your enemy pre-match??)

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
A legacy hanger would be fantastic. I’ve kind of created this for myself already – setting up individual alts with their “favorite” ships. Sadly, most of them are now favoring bombers… or I don’t play them at all if I loaded out a scout or (le gasp) a strike fighter. It would be very cool to have a GSF stronghold where you can actually interface with and show off your “fleet”
*No Bothans were harmed to bring you this information*

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
09.05.2017 , 07:31 PM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by Eztro View Post
So if your new, don't waste time with anything else, get a GS and learn to use it.
I'll just leave this here. Read it, learn it, love it.

I won't argue that a lot of matches devolve into GS chess, and I certainly understand finding this playstyle tiresome. You are certainly not alone in that. But the fact is, there are indeed effective counters to gunships - even multiple gunships. 1v1, good battlescouts will eat even the best GS pilots for lunch. That said, pulling off a win versus a GS wall requires at least some level of coordination. And that's where the average pug team falls flat. At a high level of play, 8 gunships aren't going to win a TDM versus a well-coordinated team.

tl;dr - read that guide, fly smart, make some friends, get a group. Profit.

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Self-Inflicted / Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

Eztro's Avatar


Eztro
09.07.2017 , 09:16 PM | #298
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximilianPower View Post
I'll just leave this here. Read it, learn it, love it.

I won't argue that a lot of matches devolve into GS chess, and I certainly understand finding this playstyle tiresome. You are certainly not alone in that. But the fact is, there are indeed effective counters to gunships - even multiple gunships. 1v1, good battlescouts will eat even the best GS pilots for lunch. That said, pulling off a win versus a GS wall requires at least some level of coordination. And that's where the average pug team falls flat. At a high level of play, 8 gunships aren't going to win a TDM versus a well-coordinated team.

tl;dr - read that guide, fly smart, make some friends, get a group. Profit.
You illustrate my point completely. To beat the pug GS wall (I like your description there ), you need a well coordinated assault group. There is something wrong when that is the case.
*No Bothans were harmed to bring you this information*

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
09.08.2017 , 05:28 AM | #299
Quote: Originally Posted by Eztro View Post
You illustrate my point completely. To beat the pug GS wall (I like your description there ), you need a well coordinated assault group. There is something wrong when that is the case.
I agree, to an extent. GS walls are a problem on specific maps, notably Lost Shipyards TDM. Gunships stack a little too well there because they have terrific line of sight. In my experience, these are the matches that most typically devolve into gunship chess. I do think gunships could use some sort of nerf so they don't stack so well.

But anywhere else, you have options. On Kuat Mesas TDM, smart flying can get you up a gunship's tailpipe without being exposed to railguns. On domination maps, teams largely comprised of gunships shouldn't be an issue. They can't hold nodes effectively, and certainly can't cap them sitting 15km away.

I took issue with this:
Quote: Originally Posted by Eztro View Post
If you get caught with your pants down in a GS, it should cost you. Right now, it doesn't. You just boost out, and pull your pursuer into the field of other GSs greedily waiting to pounce and watch them get vaporized while you find another spot to snipe from.
You can absolutely wreck a single GS with a scout (ideally, a Flashfire or Sting). With practice, you can win that matchup nearly every time. All you really have to do is get them to move; an unharassed GS is dangerous, but as soon as he's forced to deal with a scout, he's no longer a threat. The link I posted should help.

Zuckerkorn Zuckernaut Spiderzuck Tensorcide Zuck-srw'i
Maximilian Power TøbiasFünke Tryhard Neckbeard MaxPower-srw
Star Forge / Satele Shan / Darth Malgus


Self-Inflicted / Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
09.21.2017 , 09:08 AM | #300
I wonder if the 300-th post after the initial question triggers something..... like a response.... or even just a post mortem nerve impulse.

I would think 250+ posts of open, honest, sensible opinions should get something..... or is it business as usual at Bioware?
-i.e. Ask a question, ignore the answers for over 2 years.. then ask another?

Just wondering .... HELLO? ANYONE AT HOME IN THERE? ANYONE? HELLO?
-Storm Cutter.
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