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Food for Thought


caederon's Avatar


caederon
08.20.2017 , 09:33 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Someone wrote here - at least that was how I understood him or her, that taking out weaker players in an domination (?) map is an essetial thing, because weaker players would be a threat, too.
That is probably because they are. Even the weakest player who never pulls the trigger on their weapons can contribute significantly in a Domniation match just by getting to A B or C and staying alive in the vicinity of the node. When those weaker players do happen to pull the trigger and shoot, they are adding firepower into a zone of attrition around a satellite that can overcome your team. If those weaker players are in bombers, they can (and often do) find a crack to wedge themselves in and sit there in a hard-to-hit position.

Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Keeping this kind of logic in mind (/supposed I understood it correctly), I understand now why one side continues to perform this "complete decimation" without helping newer players.
Help new players outside the confines of a match. I do. Frequently. That is the appropriate venue for reaching out to people and/or providing them the resources to learn.

If people hate losing, they can react to that by either quitting or by using it to fuel their motivation to improve. If the path to improvement is too long or involved for some, that is a decision they can make based on their personal tolerance.

If a game system provides everyone accessibility to the same tools, it is reasonable to say that it is a fair system. People are not blocked from achieving their personal best by anything other than lack of motivation, dedication, and physical skills. Anyone can contribute competently in GSF.

- Despon

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
08.20.2017 , 02:51 PM | #12
I would agree with Des's last response - in a dom matches the dynamics are different, altho you do evaluate threat levels unless every name is a big hitter. It really would make no sense to let random newbie pilots take a sat unopposed unless you were intentionally giving it to them in a game you already know was won.

Every now and then I will intentionally allow a newer pilot to blow me up as I remember how I would try so damn hard and usually never get credit for a single kill. That's not to say people don't earn their kills on me as plenty do - but there is a difference between someone who can kill you and someone might just tickle. That's in matches already won so as to not disrespect my fellow teammates and cause a loss. Typically, if I'm in a match I know is won I'm far more lax and easy to kill than one that's neck and neck.

On the other hand, I do think expressing some restraint is warranted when your team completely outclasses the other side. I remember when I started I would respawn and moments later die from something I never saw. It was almost enough to get me to quit as what's the point of just clicking respawn repeatedly for several minutes.

Last night I had a match where we completely outclassed the opposing team. I ended up mostly going after someone with a racist name repeatedly to not feel so bad as the two fellow aces on the other side had more than their fair share to deal with.

Of course today on TRE I was not afforded any such mercy in the same circumstance but when they're mean over there it's not with attitude or anything.

Mid match the pace is generally moving too quick to really provide in-depth assistance - I don't think anyone aside from Stasie has gone as far as Despon has in trying to help new people. While me disagree on certain perspectives, you'd be hard pressed to find anybody more patient and willing to help with GSF as Des.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana

Kraagien's Avatar


Kraagien
08.25.2017 , 11:26 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
Every now and then I will intentionally allow a newer pilot to blow me up as I remember how I would try so damn hard and usually never get credit for a single kill. That's not to say people don't earn their kills on me as plenty do - but there is a difference between someone who can kill you and someone might just tickle. That's in matches already won so as to not disrespect my fellow teammates and cause a loss. Typically, if I'm in a match I know is won I'm far more lax and easy to kill than one that's neck and neck.
Sometimes I hear Rapid Fire Laser Cannon coming at me, and I look towards the stock ship thinking: Oh, there's on again. Then I simply activate Distortion Field and continue my strafing battle with another Gunship. Why does he not kill me? Not because of his non-mastered Rapid Fire Laser Cannons. Not because the game is limiting him in his ability to kill me. No, he's actually firing in empty space.

I'm not sure whether you were around two years ago when <Unrelenting> was still ruling the skies most of the time, but a lot like Despon a group of pilots (including myself) decided to create a guild (]<Thranta Squadron>) in order to change a few things: (1) to learn how we could at least put up a decent fight against them, (2) to help others learn how to do the same and (3) to last but not least soften the experience for other pilots.

By now, other guilds, groups and pilots have come into play and it appears we failed at the third and last thing we wanted to do. However, doing the first thing was completed with only a minimum amount of effort, really. It was easy to find information on Galactic StarFighter even then (when there was no such thing as Despon's GSF School on YouTube and the only thing we used to find information was a good set of Google search terms). These days it is even easier, partially, I hope, because of how we also attempted to achieve the second goal.

There are more guides now, the one even better than the other, though all with their strong points. There's Despon's YouTube channel, which he already linked above, which provides fun and informational content that is even enjoyable for the most experienced pilots. Only last week there was SRTR II, during which a group of Veterans (myself included) helped twelve Rookies over the span of six hours to get into GSF. Indeed, it requires even less effort to learn GSF than it did back when I first started.

This is the biggest sign to me that most people who are now playing GSF, like Despon says, don't want to put in even the tiny bit of effort of watching a YouTube video. For most, that's a pretty normal way to spend at least an hour of their day!

Now of course, one might promote that restrain should be applied when facing newer pilots. I, for one, have done that for about a year. I admire your effort. But this is a PvP game. While with real-world problems small changes to your own behaviour may impact others, here, everyone is (semi-)anonymous. And when people are anonymous, they act differently. They say different things. Sometimes for the good, usually for the worse. And in my experience, those worse reactions are toxic. Not only for you as the receiving party, but the person who gives it is also only more set to do what he or she wants.

Thus, my advice would be to change the things you can change. Focus on your own actions. Help others if they ask you. But don't try to change people's behaviour: you'll end up disappointed, and that's not worth it.
RedFantom - Developer of the GSF Parser

WingCommander and Recruitment Officer of Thranta Squadron

krfsm's Avatar


krfsm
08.27.2017 , 04:29 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
The new reward for the intro quest is really nice. You can essentially unlock every ship and use the daily and weeklies to help gather req or invest it all in one or a few ships.

The grind is still painfully slow. I was left to rely on the heavy hitters to get a win or generally eat a blowout loss for very little req.

I am level 22 I think at the time of writing this. My ships on the other hand are still far from competitive - primarily as I'm going up against skilled pilots who are nearly or fully upgraded vs my "baby ship". It really puts in perspective just how often I did this to level multiple characters before costs were reduced.
It is a bit less grindy if you start playing GSF at 50 or higher. Then you can pick up intro to conquest, use the fleet reqs to get a sting/flashfire for your first game (which at least is somewhat useful in stock config), and then after you've bought every ship in the game plus companions (from the 25k gsf intro quest) you can use the ship reqs from the conquest quest to do initial setup on all your ships. It doesn't make them competitive, but you can at least get the most important components for your ships before you bring them to battle.

One thing I would like them to change related to requisitions is the participation rules. If you're fleeing for your life through a flurry of bolts and missiles, you're soon counted as not participating, when clearly you are. In addition to doing damage and interacting with objectives, being hit or being the target of missile locks should count as participation.

wbtusmc's Avatar


wbtusmc
08.30.2017 , 08:24 AM | #15
Reiyn,

As a first timer who you (and several others on Republic side, Harbinger) annihilated time and time again yesterday, I whole heartedly agree that it was not fun and had I something better to do, I may not have stuck around as long as I did.

See this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...926658&page=30

(Flying under 'Loose Sausagewallet')

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
08.30.2017 , 02:10 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by wbtusmc View Post
Reiyn,

As a first timer who you (and several others on Republic side, Harbinger) annihilated time and time again yesterday, I whole heartedly agree that it was not fun and had I something better to do, I may not have stuck around as long as I did.

See this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...926658&page=30

(Flying under 'Loose Sausagewallet')
Hey Loose, I saw you in a match today just an hour or so ago. You were flying a type 2 scout in a Kuat mesas domination match that the pubs won pretty easily. I just wanted to tell you to keep trying, weekday afternoons are often dominated by one side or the other so don't give up and keep plugging away. You've made a good choice to unlock that scout because it's definitely considered one of the meta ships. I'll try to reach out to you next time I'm flying on impside.
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
08.31.2017 , 08:01 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by wbtusmc View Post
Reiyn,

As a first timer who you (and several others on Republic side, Harbinger) annihilated time and time again yesterday, I whole heartedly agree that it was not fun and had I something better to do, I may not have stuck around as long as I did.

See this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...926658&page=30

(Flying under 'Loose Sausagewallet')
Normally you won't see my main for more than a few random matches on any given day. If you're referring to the most recent Galactic Command bonus day for GSF - I flew her longer than I have the entire time I've had her, and she's almost 3 years old now.

The week long command bonus event managed to get me to sub, and even with the bonus its still very grindy.

I won more than I lost, but not by a huge margin - and don't think I even grouped for q priority that day despite focusing on GSF specifically for command xp (along with heroics and such).

And yes, there were definitely a lot of inexperienced pilots to go around, but I did end up having a solid amount of quality games despite the influx.

Just last night I got in on imp q for daily knowing full well that there wasn't enough strength on that side to succeed against the team of 4 pubside. So, accepting that loss is almost inevitable - sometimes I play differently for the sake of amusement. Instead of actively trying to win in a hopeless situation - I would try and focus my efforts on someone and make sure that even with the huge advantage they would still have to blow up a few times. It's essentially a kamikaze stye one way trip.

Sometimes, you have to find a different way to enjoy the mode other than winning. A lot of what got me to ace level was simply finding the strongest pilots and trying desperately to kill them. Most of the time I didn't have to find them, they found me, over and over again. I died excessively in the beginning but each attempt was its own little learning experience.

I had more fun in those two losing matches than I did in the one prior where I was pub winning with a blowout.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana

Haooll's Avatar


Haooll
08.31.2017 , 03:36 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by krfsm View Post
One thing I would like them to change related to requisitions is the participation rules. If you're fleeing for your life through a flurry of bolts and missiles, you're soon counted as not participating, when clearly you are. In addition to doing damage and interacting with objectives, being hit or being the target of missile locks should count as participation.
Add those who drop a hyperspace beacon somewhere useful (i.e. not miles below/above sats A & C but midway between A&B or B&C so respawning teammates get you to the one most in need of help asap ...), and then stays back out of trouble to keep it active as long as possible ... every game I do this I get tagged as not participating but clearly am in that I have a non-violent beacon assisting my teammates ... what's the point in dropping a hyperspace beacon if I then go into combat and die 10 seconds later ? and have to wait a minute before I can drop another ?

caederon's Avatar


caederon
08.31.2017 , 04:38 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Haooll View Post
Add those who drop a hyperspace beacon somewhere useful
...
and then stays back out of trouble to keep it active as long as possible ... every game I do this I get tagged as not participating but clearly am in that I have a non-violent beacon assisting my teammates ... what's the point in dropping a hyperspace beacon if I then go into combat and die 10 seconds later ?
I can understand your concern, but consider the following:
_
  • It is likely that only one of the two nodes you have put your Beacon between is under heavy attack (or any attack). Going to the off-node, usually the 'side' one, will not only ensure you are contributing by being on an objective, but will also help your team defend that node if the attack shifts there.
  • Taking yourself out of the action puts your team at a significant disadvantage regardless of your Beacon placement. Guaranteeing the other side numerical superiority is not helpful to your team.
  • Bombers can survive quite well by keeping Line of Sight (LoS) broken between themselves and attackers by using the satellites' many protrusions as shelter. Combining this with your mines makes it difficult for enemies to attack you.
  • Your Beacon helps your teammates after they've died. Help them even more by contributing towards keeping them alive by using your mines to deny the enemy easy access to the node, which also creates an area of strength for your teammates to fall back to if necessary.
_
Once you learn how to use your Bomber's components and crew to good effect, and when you master the art of being hard to hit in close spaces, you'll be a valuable contributor to your team.

- Despon