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GSF Discussion: Friction Points

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF Discussion: Friction Points
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Pilgrim_Grey's Avatar

07.17.2017 , 09:01 PM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Server wide channels don't exist at character creation. If that's going to change, it shouldn't start with /gsf.
I think they mean stuff like the trade and pvp channel, which definitely are there at start, just like general chat. If not, well, that seems like that would be the easiest and would make sense to do. *shrugs*
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phalczen's Avatar

07.17.2017 , 10:33 PM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by Pilgrim_Grey View Post
I think they mean stuff like the trade and pvp channel, which definitely are there at start, just like general chat. If not, well, that seems like that would be the easiest and would make sense to do. *shrugs*
Those are planet (or fleet) specific, not server-wide. Some servers have a /endgame channel set up for players looking to do operations or other endgame activities, and several guilds have set up channels for recruitment, like the Ootinicast-affiliiated guilds on the Harbinger and the Alea Iacta Est guilds on the JC server.
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Verain's Avatar

07.17.2017 , 11:46 PM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by Pilgrim_Grey View Post
I think they mean stuff like the trade and pvp channel, which definitely are there at start, just like general chat. If not, well, that seems like that would be the easiest and would make sense to do. *shrugs*
The game doesn't have automatic server channels, and for GREAT reasons. If there is one automatic server channel, then it is the general chat for the server. If there are two, then the second one could be something else. So if you added a GSF chat, it would be all divided up into zones- ZONE channels, like General, PvP, Trade. All the pilots would have to make another server channel, and this one would be hard to get the word out for.
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Verain's Avatar

07.18.2017 , 12:41 PM | #284
Color Blind / Color Support

I'm personally a big fan of UIs that distinguish purpose ONLY with color. On my home box, I redid the window decorations to only be different colors (same brightness), right next to each other, rainbow from red for close to violet for pin-to-workspace. A colorblind man would find my computer extremely unusable, and I don't give a crap, because I'm not colorblind. However, my custom scheme is neither a default inclusion in XFCE, nor does it ship with default-enabled window decorations that are unusable by the color blind- you have to dig around in settings to find any that are distinguished by color at all, and even then they are also distinguished by default position, etc.

SWTOR in general has global requests for a set of colorblind modes (to allow for recognizability for the more common types of colorblindness), and I won't touch on that. I will instead talk about small changes that would help accessibility for at least a decent number of users.

In GSF, the two big things that show up oddly are satellite colors in game, and the satellite and score colors in the UI. If a green satellite had some blue stripes on the wings, and was green and blue in the UI, that would probably make a big difference. If the team scores had a bit more distinction in how they were written- say, one was a larger font- that would also help. Secondarily, if some visual element existed for maps and targeting in addition to color, that would also help.

There's a bunch more that could be done if this was a design goal, and it is kind of a SWTOR problem, not a GSF problem. But I feel that 80% of the issues could be addressed with tweaks.
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LilSaihah's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 01:17 PM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
There's a case to be made that it is. I think it is mostly a player population issue though. Because there are fewer players, you more often get into unfair, discouraging matches in which you don't have an opportunity to learn.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
To a degree, yes. Only one ship that I enjoy flying (Jurgoran) is viable. The other ships I like flying are not viable.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
No, I don't think so. It would be fun to see though.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Matchmaking issues?
Major. It is impossible for me to find a match without going across servers at my 'reasonable' playtimes (Oceanic). I would likely play SWTOR a lot more if finding a GSF match wasn't such a pain.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
Very minor. This isn't something I have an issue with.
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Tofu_Shark's Avatar

07.23.2017 , 10:29 AM | #286
There are a number of problems with GSF:
  • Lack of proper tutorials
    • There are lots of crybabies that can't be bothered to find tutorials online that explain the game. You need to explain more than just flight controls and shooting in the tutorial. You need to explain the abilities, targeting keys, energy management, leading shots, missile locks, evasion ability, domination rules, etc.
  • Learning curve
    • Can be alleviated with better tutorials and better matchmaking - people get frustrated and quit matches as soon as the going gets tough (this also happens in warzones) or they stop playing GSF completely. This leads them to believe loadouts trump skill, but even once you've upgraded your loadouts once, a capable pilot can start to make a difference. Whoever thought to add RPG elements to GSF is frankly, a moron. I came in expecting a slightly dumbed-down X-wing/TIE experience, and what I got was far different from that. Dumbed-down? More like lobotomized. It can be fun, but loadouts do play a factor. Anyone that has played those types of sims comes in with an advantage though.
  • Matchmaking is horrendous - oftentimes, teams are stacked one way or another. This makes for boring matches. I've had a handful of nail-biters, and they are indeed the most enjoyable and memorable...even if we wind up losing, but they are few and far between. There needs to be some kind of system to track pilot skill, and not something just level-based. It needs to be stats based.
  • More game modes are needed - such as capital ship/space station assault and escort missions
  • More maps are needed
  • Ships need to be better balanced
    • Currently there is no Strike Fighter in the meta. Anything else is tactically superior. Gunships and bombers are king, and lots of people don't know how to properly counter each, even though there are counters to them.
  • People need to be able to be kicked not just for being idle, but for being rude and immature.
    • The unanimous vote system doesn't work. It should use a super majority system, and moving or interacting should not break the vote. This applies to warzones too.
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Alssaran's Avatar

07.23.2017 , 03:05 PM | #287

I will try to answer as thoroughly as possible and provide an insight into why I, personally, think GSF isn't fun. My own subjective "friction points."

Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
Yes and no. And I know that sounds contradictory and evasive by nature.

Many advantages in GSF come from point advantages and build advantages. Even such things as turning rate can be increased with ship requisition in the component's "skill tree." As your point advantage increases, so does your progression on the "learning curve." There really is no need to participate in the steep learning curve when you have the components and build advantage over the enemy. This advantage goes as far as to offer direct shield penetration and other immensely powerful bonuses for veterans.

The learning curve isn't the issue, simply because the learning curve is never properly tested. It's the point curve that is causing tremendous issues.

Turn rates and shield penetration are way too powerful bonuses to have for simple progression. It makes what could be a game of skill and maneuverability into a point game. And this is where the secondary issue comes up: Matchmaking.

When you pitch veteran players with all these benefits into the same game as new players with close to none of the benefits, chaos is sure to follow. I went on my sage and did a quick round of GSF earlier. During the match, I used a new Strike Fighter to fight a gunship. I shot at th gunship for upwards of ten seconds and got multiple damage numbers popping up. It wasn't hard to hit because he was essentially motionless. I was not able to even drop his shield. Shooting at a built-up ship for over ten seconds and not even scratching the hull in any meaningful way is completely frustrating. Espescially when some other pilot flies around the corner and kills you in what seems to be three seconds.

In direct dogfights, fresh ships lose too. People seem to be done turning with their improved turning rates by the time you haven't even finished 2/3 of your own turn, and they already fire at you with vastly superior blasters.

This entire game of point improvements and serious advantages makes GSF completely unfun with such a small available playerbase. Veterans will stomp the new guys with nearly 1,000/200 point advantages. It completely kills every willingness to participate in the following learning curve.

And, yes, there is a curve. But that only comes into play after the point advantages even out over time: Aiming. Aiming feels completely off in GSF. You don't only have to maneuver your ship! You also have to constantly aim for a little, sometimes almost invisible circle in front of your enemy. That circle can move wildly from time to time, with little to no anticipation of where it will go on a fast, maneuverable ship. And even if you hit that circle, deflection/miss makes it feel completely unresponsive because there is no indication you actually missed.

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
Other people have pointed this out in the past: Scouts can be somewhat useful. Strike Fighters are basically useless. Bombers and gunships have serious advantages. And if nobody on the team knows how to perfectly counter a bomber at a node, it is not unusual that a skilled bomber pilot will take out two or three average skilled enemy strike fighters.

Yes, ship balance is one of the reasons I rarely play. I am a strike fighter/scout type of person. I do not enjoy slow bombers or stationary combat. I enjoy the fast paces, dogfighting aspects of starfighter combat. Even back in SWG during JTL. If I can't play a strike fighter even slightly competitive, I won't really bother. I don't feel like picking a gunship/bomber and slowly fly around a single node for six minutes while deploying mines.

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
Not at all.

I don't feel like GSF needs something new. However, I am not a veteran. The current GSF content has barely lived past it's use for me because I rarely play GSF. What GSF could use, however, is an overhaul in how the game mode is integrated into the rest of the game.

Let's take one aspect that is very dear to me: Customization.

I have spent upwards of 30 million credits on my Republic characters alone in an attempt to make them look just the way I want. I spent CC on the CM to buy my sage the Sanctified Caretaker outfit and Blademaster's Lightsaber to make him look like a proper Jedi. That's properly something like 20€. I spent 10 million+ credits on my guardian for the Jedi Knight character creation armour. The point of this lenghty rant is to demonstrate that there are tons of people in this game who spent dozens of millions of credits to make their characters, strongholds and other things look just right to them.

This aspect is lost in GSF. Our characters vanish from screen. They seem to be replaced by a small, uncostumizable ship without any soul, and they mostly look the same to everyone.

And don't take this as a veiled request to introduce new "colours" to the CM. What is missing is real customization, and the ability to showcase that customization outside of matches. You'll barely notice a paint-job or a different engine colour during a match. What's missing is the ability to showcase our ships. One example of this would be to introduce new patterns, extras and cosmetic items for starfighters (paint jobs, pin-up logos, droids, battle-damage esque things), and then give us the ability to display these ships on centerpiece hooks/starship hooks in our SH. My biggest turnoff in terms of cosmetics is that GSF doesn't have all that much in this area.

Matchmaking issues?
Tremendous matchmaking issues.

It is not fun to queue for the game as a new pilot and then get completely obliderated by veterans. It is not fun, it will never be fun. It's not a learning experience, and it certainly doesn't "harden the player for things to come." It's such a frustratingly bad experience that you want to smash your keyboard and do some PvE or ground PvP. The only person who considers this kind of matchmaking "fun" is the veteran on the winning end of the spectrum.

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

I've said it since early access for GSF began: The hangar should be legacy wide. Everything else is somehow legacy wide. Strongholds wouldn't be nearly as popular if they weren't a legacy wide thing. The CM has legacy wide unlocks. GCXP unlocks legacy wide bonuses when one of your characters reaches 300. Gear can be traded through the legacy armour system. And warzone commendations were tradeable through your legacy up until 4.X.

The GSF hangar should have been legacy wide from the start.

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UlaVii's Avatar

08.11.2017 , 08:36 AM | #288
People suiciding through matches is happening quite frequently at the moment and as we've seen in the past, even with videos, screenshots and tickets customer services are not willing to help.

My suggestion would be that the system auto-kicks people that suicide 5 times in a match if they have not killed at least 5 enemies.

Additionally, the system should auto-kick people that are inactive for 2 minutes and by that I mean not contributing at all. Some just sit at the base ship and when you initiate a vote kick against them they nudge their ship forwards which cancels the kick vote.

SeCKSEgai's Avatar

08.13.2017 , 02:54 PM | #289
While I can currently comment in the forum....

Is the learning curve too steep to get into?

Definitely. Even when grasping the basic concepts of a match type (Capture and hold or kill count) it's very difficult to be effective even after several matches. I would have never become a decent pilot if it wasn't my nostalgia for tie fighter. Even then I barely held on long enough to become proficient as tie fighter got right what gsf got wrong despite being a far older game.

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

Despite having extensively flown every ship type, I would say gunships and bombers ruined the mode. Most players want to duke it out in dogfights. Being blown up without ever seeing what shot you is more than enough to turn most people away, especially when it happens repeatedly. Clearing mines and turrets tends to require specific tools or a lot of coordination - something that cannot be expected of a new pilot.

Bomber spam and Gunship chess don't make a fun match for most (but it does for some).

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

I was gone nearly a year and stuff I had purchased in gsf were removed from my account. Doesn't make a lot of sense to spend more money on a product that can't maintain proper records of what you own. Contacting support for resolution is an irritating process that is ineffective anyway if the records are still being reset.

Bugs persisting for over 2 years also further discourage investing in said product, and having to check components every login is the equivalent of having to put on your gear... every time despite not having taken it off.

Matchmaking issues?

Yes. Blowouts should be the rare exception, not common place. Getting skipped after waiting 10-15mins doesn't help either. The community is small but it can't grow without other changes to improve the state of the game.

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

As someone who's mastered all ships available on at least 6 characters, I can attest to it being a painful process. It's essentially like leveling a character twice, first in game level, then gsf level. I will naturally avoid getting in q if on a character I haven't devoted to gsf - its not worth the hassle and I have over 20 max level chars (when max level was 65) I'm not always going to play a character that was devoted to gsf.

So to summarize, fix long-standing bugs, create a legacy wide hanger and provide in game bonuses if you want to entice more of the player base.
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Vichr's Avatar

08.14.2017 , 04:45 AM | #290
Is the learning curve too steep to get into?

- Definitely for a new player. I started playing GSF on launch. My first deathmatch ended up 5:3 after time ran out and most of the points were self-destructs. It was way easier to learn basics back then. For a new player it must be rough right now, there are experienced pilots with upgraded ships and being blown down from sky over and over without actually knowing what has happened must be extremely frustrating.

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

- No, although strikers should be look at (they are not viable at all). Also deathmatches with experienced pilots on both sides usually end up in a Gunship battles with 6 GS on each side, which can be quite boring. But hey, it is a MMORPG, some "classes" are always stronger than others.

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

- I am playing GSF and i enjoy it. But i agree it needs something new: Especially new maps and new game modes. Some PVE content would be interesting too. Probably a new ship. Concept of a stealth ship sounds great.

Matchmaking issues?

- I think for proper matchmaking GSF needs a larger player base. I only queue solo, don't have any problems with matchmaking, sometimes i win, sometimes i lose. Server merging/cross-server queue would definitely helps too.

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

- I like leveling new characters, leveling ships is part of that. Having access to my fully upgraded hangar on all my characters would probably spoil the fun for me. Some "hook" would be nice though, like having fleet requisition legacy - wide? But i can totally understand someone doesn't want to go through the whole upgrading process more than once.

Generally i think GSF is great. But it needs some adjustments that would attract more people to play it:

- PVE content (for people who enjoy PVE, also a place where you can learn how to play)
- New PVP maps
- New PVP game modes