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Reasons why the the Jedi and Republic are pushovers.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Reasons why the the Jedi and Republic are pushovers.

kepeskvaeri's Avatar


kepeskvaeri
07.24.2017 , 02:15 AM | #1
Everytime I look at a star wars related forum I always see that people everywhere seems to think that the Jedi of the movie-era where the best that has ever been. I do not agree on that point or at least not on the point that there has never been anyone before them that could have been placed on the same level.
I have made a thread where I asked exactly why people thought in that way (post it here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=924984) but I have not recieved the respons that I have been looking for. So here is a different aproach, insult and smite the o so mighty heroes an maybee they wil get angry and present me with arguments Mohahahahaha.
Argument 1: In the 1000 years since the fall of the Brotherhood of Darkness the sith who succeded them pretty much manipulated and one could almost say that they unofficialy ruled the republics corrupt infrastructure for at least three of sith generations when you read the books. That controll they used to make the republic pretty much useless. Pirates and other violent elements could roam the trading lines and isolate the individual planets in the Rims and the sith used their leverage in the senate to keep the systems from mustering a functional military force to keep the violent elements under control breeding mistrust between the rim and the core that lasted al the way to the clone wars.
The point of this argument is to explain how the sith could so easily make the republic and later the seperatists jump on command, one side where under a strong liked chancelor and the other where so distrusful and fearfullof the corrupt rule of the republic that they clung to the only thing that could save them. Count Dooku

Argument 2: The jedi of the era wher under the dirct control of the chancelor and could not be dispatched without his/her aproval. Through that the sith could control them easily, espacialy when the senate took control over that power and pretty much let the Jedi be reduced to enforcers and bullies that were more distrusted pawns of the seante to the Rim people than anything else (the source for this argument is the books Darth Plagueis and Labyrinth of Evil).

Argument 3: The jedi of the era for so afraid of the dark side that they even forbid the use of the Juyo form which resulted in them being unprepared when facing someone who had been trained in it ( I have not read the stories about Darth Maul yet but I do seem to recall that he had face of against a few jedi and a master or two before Naboo and ended up on top). They also had no experience fighting against other force users other than a few straglers here and there so why are they always hyped as the best ever to be?
Time and time again the jedi masters of the era faced of aginst the cyborg generall and this bodyguards and fell but never did it occur to the jedi to take the advanced tincans with the force to turn in into big scrapballs. And of course we have that embaresing episode where a jedi high council member is stomped by Savage Opress a newbie to the force with a few months of experience at best.

Argument 4: The jedi of the era were lazy and just plain stupid. They felt the dark side rising for over 300 years and they did nothing. Dooku said right to Obi-wans face that the sith ruled the republic and what did the jedi do? Nothing. Pure idiocy that is, with a little deductive reasoning and a little detective work it could al have been solved. Who had enough influence to manuever the Naboo crisis? Who cold have paid for the clone army? Who was in the position to cover up any kind of mistakes? But no the jedi just rush to the obvious threat and starts choping droids.

Argument 5: The clone wars were not that big compared to the other great wars in the lore. Think abput it. The rupublic has been at peace for about a millenia, Both sides of the conflict had to wait about at least half a year into the war before they even could launch an effectice campaign bea´cause they simply laked the recources to pull it of.
And the tactics the republic used were stupid as f***k. They face a pretty much brain-dead breed of enemy footsoldiers 9 times out of 10 whos only tactics is to swarm the enmy with numbers, who are so slow in their reactions and programming that the number of standard kills per clone were 20 droids (whith later sabotage that was raised to 50 droids per clone). So what do the generalls do most of the time? Take them head on thats what. The enemy had no brains and required a command ship to work and had no force users to back them up, so why not launch commando raids a la Flashpoint style and destroy the command ship and then take bets on how fast the KILL EVERYTHIN THAT MOVES backup command will take care of the rest.
And then its just the plain idiocy of using only hte clone army. You find out that you have 200 000 units of clones ready for battle (how much a unit represent I do not now I have read to many estiments to be sure), great now let us use them to gain time to train another army to increase our chances. WHAT no+ we are supposed to trust an army grown and genetecly modified to fight and obey just because they helped save 20 or so Jedi and started a war?.
The seperatists use armies that come out on assembly line and i think Grievous said something about outnumbering the republic 100 to 1 which is not unlikely since the war industry of the seperatist had a head start. So the citizens of the republic do not line up to fight against this mechanized threat that urns entire worlds, they just sit aound being afraid an dhope that the seperatist do not come knocking on the door.

So there you have it my arguments that Jedi and Republic had no chance against the sith Grand plan since they lacked the brains to even comprhend that they had been suckered even when it was litteraly jammed in their faces. Th succes of the sith was not because of Palpatines lightsaber skills it was because the sith had spent a full millenia lobotomizing both the jedi and the republic. Thats my argument now do anyone have anything to ad?

Ps. The Empires wrath at the time of SoR would use Obi-wans as a football and spank Darth Vader until he cried for mommy .

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
07.24.2017 , 09:41 AM | #2
The Sith, and the various incarnations of the Sith Empire, more often than not lose wars to the Jedi and the Republic. The Sith have a rather poor record, overall.

kepeskvaeri's Avatar


kepeskvaeri
07.24.2017 , 09:45 AM | #3
Another thing that I do not wnat to make a separate thread about. I am writting a fanfic about the clash between the player characters and I am bot sure where you can upload it. any advise?

Vlanzche's Avatar


Vlanzche
08.01.2017 , 09:16 PM | #4
All of those Arguments are events depicted in the Moves - Epiosdes 1 - 6 . You did mentioned the BrotherHood of Darkness ... but not a good way in how it was used.

You do realize that the Events in the Movies was the Republic at it's worse, right ? Even the Mandalorians claim that the Jedi are the most worthy Opponent - not the Sith. Even if so ... its kinda hard to compare the 2 tbh - the Sith would be too busy trying to kill themselves while the Jedi can just watch
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kepeskvaeri's Avatar


kepeskvaeri
08.02.2017 , 08:27 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Vlanzche View Post
All of those Arguments are events depicted in the Moves - Epiosdes 1 - 6 . You did mentioned the BrotherHood of Darkness ... but not a good way in how it was used.

You do realize that the Events in the Movies was the Republic at it's worse, right ? Even the Mandalorians claim that the Jedi are the most worthy Opponent - not the Sith. Even if so ... its kinda hard to compare the 2 tbh - the Sith would be too bust trying to kill themselves while the Jedi can just watch
Which is why I talked about the movies and the clone wars and rebels series and not the games or the books or anything else. My biggest problem with films is that they are said to be when the jedi are at their peak but everything I see in the canoon and legends screams BS. What I really want is a debate were people explain to me why the jedi are supposed to be that. All I get when I post these threads are not answers but dodging commentaries and answers that has nothing to do with the question.
And the Republic is at its worst as you said so no use talking about that.

TheSuitMan's Avatar


TheSuitMan
08.15.2017 , 07:30 AM | #6
The Jedi also had the "brilliant" idea to build their temple over an Sith-Shrine what made them easy to manipulate by the Sith.

kepeskvaeri's Avatar


kepeskvaeri
08.15.2017 , 09:45 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Vlanzche View Post
All of those Arguments are events depicted in the Moves - Epiosdes 1 - 6 . You did mentioned the BrotherHood of Darkness ... but not a good way in how it was used.

You do realize that the Events in the Movies was the Republic at it's worse, right ? Even the Mandalorians claim that the Jedi are the most worthy Opponent - not the Sith. Even if so ... its kinda hard to compare the 2 tbh - the Sith would be too busy trying to kill themselves while the Jedi can just watch
I mentioned that The brotherhood was defeated and that was it, not how or why. And yes I did sum up the Republic WHEN IT WAS AT ITS WORST beacuse that was the whole point of that ridicoulusly long post. To sum up what the Republic and the Jedi had been reduced to. That is the enire point of these threads I spit out with regular intervals despite that I never get any answers (none that mekes any sence anyway).

Why is it that every movie-hyped person can never give me an answer with any kind of facts or good reasoning behind it?
Get some discusion going here, I paint a giant bullseye one my digital back and ask you to explain why the characters in the last days of the republic is not half-wits with the deductive reasoning of a cockroach and the only thing I get is a few hastily put together sentences that does not make any sence whatsoever.

Anakinj is a wimp, Obi-wan is a lobotomized catholic scholl principal who can not see his students problems even when they are stuffed up his nose and Yoda could not have any less atachement to the reality of the galaxy left if he had spent the last 100 years smoking Deathsticks.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
08.23.2017 , 09:34 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Vlanzche View Post
the Sith would be too busy trying to kill themselves
More likely they are trying to kill *each other*.
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Johrun's Avatar


Johrun
08.31.2017 , 04:25 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
The Sith, and the various incarnations of the Sith Empire, more often than not lose wars to the Jedi and the Republic. The Sith have a rather poor record, overall.
It's more of a cycle really - they win and loose in turns. Admittedly, pre-Darth Bane sith were weaker due to sticking lighstabers into each other's backs rather than the jedi's.

GundamPeacewind's Avatar


GundamPeacewind
09.09.2017 , 12:06 AM | #10
The Jedi Philosophy is one philosophy I do not agree with and have qualms with. Ever read The Jedi Path? After reading that, I made non-force user toons. Although, not all Jedi wanted and didn't stick with the council. In fact, some of them became Rogue Jedi. I think the gray Jedi has fascinated me more than anything.
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