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GSF Discussion: Friction Points

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF Discussion: Friction Points
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crubel's Avatar


crubel
07.06.2017 , 02:40 PM | #21
Disclaimer: I am a player that was excited and tried GSF at launch, but quickly stopped playing it. I'm not sure if that means my feedback is more or less important.

The Super Secret Space project was one that I followed closely and I had high expectations for it. When I played it, I had issues that caused me to quickly drop it. I will try to hit all of those pain points. For transparency, I played the space game a lot in another MMO, Star Wars Galaxies, and I heavily enjoyed the PVE and PVP aspects of that space game, so I am no stranger to full XYZ axis PVP play.
  • I expected the controls to be more like a flight simulator and to be able to use a joystick. The control with the mouse was extremely difficult for me, and off-putting. I don't know if I can go back due to this issue alone.
  • When I pick a ship, my job is not clear to me. In the ground game, it is clear that more role is Dmg, Heals, or Tank. In ground game PVP, you can also have objectives, but your understanding of your role helps you to adapt to how you help your team with objectives. I don't understand the ships and their roles, I don't know which ship role I like, nor do I understand how I can leverage a role to help my team with objectives. For the ground game, the entire PVE experience helps you to get set up for that, but GSF does not have that support.
  • I needed something to "ramp up" the learning curve. I was expecting some PVE missions to get the hang of things before hitting PVP. The other space missions did nothing to prepare me for PVP. GSF needs a PVE component, because a noob does not want to go fight against seasoned pros.
  • The legacy issue. I leveled a character in GSF to unlock some ships, but among my 18 toons, I have no idea which one, or if I even deleted that toon. It was a lot of work, and I didn't want to start all over for what seemed like a lot of work.
  • I feel like I always get matched against seasoned veterans, and I can barely fly straight. I feel like I would do my team a favor by not queuing, so someone better than me could be in my spot, because I'm dead weight on my team.

Ultimately, without a PVE component in place to allow me to gain more confidence against AI controlled ships, I don't think I will ever go back to the PVP space game. If GSF space PVE was in place, I would most definitely use it to master a ship and then hit up space PVP.
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Shipwright's Avatar


Shipwright
07.06.2017 , 02:42 PM | #22
Friction points for me are likely insurmountable.

I dislike the arcade flying, I come from a flight simulation background. So, GSf was likely dead for me from this point alone.

I got out of pvp in gaming many years ago, so that was the second blow. I just have no interest in pvp.

It seems unlikely that these aspects of GSF can be changed, but as you have asked for feedback I felt I should comment.

Rankyn's Avatar


Rankyn
07.06.2017 , 02:43 PM | #23
The thing that most keeps me out of GSF is that it's character based rather than Legacy based.

I've got a billion alts that I play but I don't play GSF with all of them.
So I have to make a choice... do I want to play GSF on character A or something else on character B.
Sure, I could play GSF on character B but that character has no ship upgrades and I really don't feel like grinding another pilot up.

Personally, I wouldn't be disappointed if GSF was turned into some sort of "unified" experience that was pretty much disconnected from the ground game.
I mean, other than faction and companion availability, there's really no connection anyway so it's not really that big of a stretch to conceive of a system that gave us a single point of entry into GSF when we queue rather than basing it on which character we happen to be playing.

So I picture it like this:
We essentially have two "GSF Characters" (one for each faction) that exist separately from our ground characters.
We would have a single hangar with ALL ships that would be shared by the Legacy, though faction-limited in combat.
When we queue, we would have "queue as Imperial" and "queue as Republic" buttons.
Do away with character companion crews in favor of GSF crews (adding new NPCs where necessary) to avoid issues.

Beyond that, all that really needs to be decided is which character gets the various things like XP and conquest points that are earned.
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Sephiryth's Avatar


Sephiryth
07.06.2017 , 02:46 PM | #24
Thank you for finally willing to hear out pleas. I was beginning to think the GSF pilots are the redheaded stepchildren of the game.


Adding the tier 1 gunship and bomber to the hangar did help to bring new players in. However, a new ship does not make a pilot. Learning curve is steep for new pilots coming off PVE and the tutorial is quite lacking. It's a sink or swim proposition in which new folks decide it's not worth it after being blown out of the sky 10,20 or more times. I know I was flustered at first but I like a challenge on occasion. I think a more comprehensive tutorial, possibly with NPC opponents will help them realized exactly what GSF is.

Wish we had an extra minute or 2 before matches to go over strategies with our team based on who's opposing us. Not everyone is using team speak or any voice chat. Hard as heck to type n fly. It would help the new pilots know who to be a wingman for and what to do over all. Giving new people a real fighting chance.

Matchmaker just out right sucks. When I notice it's heavily one sided and my team can clearly handle it, I just flutter about doing what I can to be annoying. We need a better system overall. Based on a medal system or time in the cockpit. Something just to balance out matches to make them competitive and fun.

I'd love to see a legacy hangar system, faction based would be fine. It would be cool if the hangar was interactive liken the hangars on the fleet. Between matches my toon could clean the carbon scoring off her freshly painted ship.

New maps of course. For vet pilots, we know the lay of the land. It can become boring to know there's a piece of space junk coming and need to strafe left. Maybe a trench run or bombing an outpost on some distant planet.

And new swag. I have capped my fleet commendations and there's nothing the vendors have that I want nor need. Perhaps selling personalized paint jobs. Think WWII bombers (Memphis Belle) and the like. Would be neat to have decals that expressed our individual tastes. I know wishful thinking but I'm tossing it out there.

Jadefoxx's Avatar


Jadefoxx
07.06.2017 , 02:46 PM | #25
1. The controls are horrible. Anyone who is not used to this type of gameplay will barely be able to fly their ship. When they do try GSF for the first time, they will just flit around like a drunk bubble bee. Then its just BOOM BOOM dead. with no clue where it even came from.

2.There is no way to practice. In the non-GSF part of the game PvE is really a sort of practice for PvP. GSF has no equivalent. It just throws you in the deep end of the pool. There needs to be some sort of PvE version vs npcs. A PvE version also needs different difficulty modes. It needs an easy mode where the npc's hit like wet noodles. It should take the npc's , in the easiest level, to take 30-50 shots to kill a player. In the master level it should be 1-3 shots.

In fact a PvE version of GSF could be a real hit. Imagine a 16 man GSF raid where they have to destroy a few minor capital ships, a shipyard, and some sort of prototype super capital ship.

The potential is there. I just don't think there are the resources to make GSF an active part of the average players gameplay.

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
07.06.2017 , 02:47 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadefoxx View Post
1. The controls are horrible. Anyone who is not used to this type of gameplay will barely be able to fly their ship. When they do try GSF for the first time, they will just flit around like a drunk bubble bee. Then its just BOOM BOOM dead. with no clue where it even came from.

2.There is no way to practice. In the non-GSF part of the game PvE is really a sort of practice for PvP. GSF has no equivalent. It just throws you in the deep end of the pool. There needs to be some sort of PvE version vs npcs. A PvE version also needs different difficulty modes. It needs an easy mode where the npc's hit like wet noodles. It should take the npc's , in the easiest level, to take 30-50 shots to kill a player. In the master level it should be 1-3 shots.

In fact a PvE version of GSF could be a real hit. Imagine a 16 man GSF raid where they have to destroy a few minor capital ships, a shipyard, and some sort of prototype super capital ship.

The potential is there. I just don't think there are the resources to make GSF an active part of the average players gameplay.
You know there's a tutorial, right? It's a bad tutorial, but you can practice flying there if nothing else. Access it by clicking the question mark icon from the hangar window.

Pscyon's Avatar


Pscyon
07.06.2017 , 02:52 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you ---- in?
It needs PvE for me to play it. A Star Wars game with no real ship combat is silly and when you finally did add it with Galactic Starfighter, it was exclusively a PvP thing. And it's not even very popular/frequently available judging by how people whine about the long queue times, so that makes it even less tempting.
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Anzel's Avatar


Anzel
07.06.2017 , 02:55 PM | #28
Reasons I don't play GSF:

1.) It's not really legacy wide. I have over 20 characters.
2.) It NEVER pops on Harbinger. Maybe I'm missing out but I don't ever see it pop.
3.) There is no PvE aspect to it. No exploration. No missions. No free flight. No transportation, etc.
4.) The ships don't have interiors that I can walk around in and explore. Invite friends, etc. (See JTL).
5.) There are no multi-player ships with turrets like JTL.

Space is supposed to be BIG. A little exploration would go a long way. Multi-player ships. PvE missions. You got me.
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HeatRacer's Avatar


HeatRacer
07.06.2017 , 02:56 PM | #29
Get rid of CC costs to convert ship reqs to fleet reqs. The income from this must be a relative pittance, while also making it more costly/penalizing for new pilots to shunt reqs to the ships they want to fix up.
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JamaicanCastle's Avatar


JamaicanCastle
07.06.2017 , 02:58 PM | #30
So I had a specific problem that made me stop playing GSF, and then when I heard there were changes a couple weeks ago I tried it and quickly remembered why I stopped in the first place. Basically, my experience with GSF goes something like this:

- Join the match. Fly towards an objective. Get blown up by a gunship.
- Respawn. Get blown up by a gunship.
- Respawn. Fly behind a rock this time so the gunship can't find me. Get blown up by a different gunship.
- Respawn. Attack a gunship that's busy blowing someone else up and dump rockets into it. At 30% health it boosts away. I get blown up by a different gunship.
- Rinse and repeat.

Now maybe this is just me being bad at GSF, I'd believe that. But it's very discouraging to think that, in any given life in GSF, I'm more likely to get blown up off the cuff than actually contribute to my team winning. In regular PvP, even when I die horribly, I usually can do something - guarding nodes, or running interference, or pulling people away so my team can hit an objective - to help the team. Failing that, I can at least point to a mistake on my part ("huh, one person attacking a point with three people there isn't a very good idea, who knew?"), whereas in GSF all I've been able to conclude is that I shouldn't be flying things that aren't gunships.

Compounding this, I find it very hard just to keep track of where my team is and what they're doing. Unless someone literally flies in front of me with an enemy on their tail, I have no idea where they are, or who they're fighting. It's a lot harder - again compared to regular PvP - to team up on people, or go where your group is, or otherwise make all these decisions that come smoothly in a warzone or arena situation.

Finally - I don't think gear progression belongs in any PvP system, but it's especially poorly suited for GSF, where there's not even the pretense of a rating system or matchmaking to keep you in games with similarly-geared people.