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GSF Discussion: Friction Points

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF Discussion: Friction Points
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Lionflash's Avatar


Lionflash
07.06.2017 , 02:07 PM | #11
How feasible is it to create a solo-mode tutorial map that let's us choose any ship, and allows us to fly around unmolested? I think an updated tutorial mode would help with friction.

orangenkaiser's Avatar


orangenkaiser
07.06.2017 , 02:18 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,


Here are some things to consider to get the conversation started:
  • Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
  • Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
  • Matchmaking issues?
  • The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

Let us know your thoughts!

-eric
1. I personally feel that it's hard to jump into because I know I'm going to get decimated by GSF vets, not so much because of the learning curve but because newbie ships are considerably weaker than the established ones. It's not exactly fun going into a match knowing you're going to lose beforehand. I'm not saying nerf this or that. The ship requisition from the new conquest mission was a nice start in the right direction to get new pilots into a competitive ship faster. Just need a little bit more of that so new pilots can be competitive faster. Also, the tutorial could be improved upon because it really doesn't teach anything but how to click and shoot.

2. No idea about this one, but I know there's a plethora of threads in the GSF subforum about ship balance that could be looked at.

3. I'm not playing GSF because of the gap between new and vet players to GSF, and the fact that I never know when to que because it seems like it only pops when there's some kind of coordination before hand.

4. The only matchmaking issue I know of is a lack of players interested in GSF.

5. Incorporating the legacy system more into the game is always a welcomed idea. Turning Fleet Rec into a legacy pool that can be converted into Ship Rec for individual characters would be a great idea.

6. Not mentioned, but having most of the ship customizations locked behind cartel coins is a huge turnoff as well. Adding a Credit option to getting the ship customizations would be a nice addition.
Snazzy Signature here

teclado's Avatar


teclado
07.06.2017 , 02:22 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Galactic Starfighter, like all group content, is a system that we want to see being used by as many players as possible.
I don't exactly agree with this statement, philosophically. I think that, to a certain extent, quality > quantity. I think that a quality game experience would attract more people and the quantity issue would be somewhat self-correcting. This goes beyond GSF, especially for me. I've actually never tried GSF. I'll detail why below.

Since GSF came out later in the game's development, it never gained traction for me. I think the biggest friction point is that I want to play my characters, not so much play a ship. Does that make sense? I can't really progress my character's gear. If GSF progression is different from ops or PvP gear progression, I don't really see the point. GSF becomes more of a distraction than anything. Flying in a ship, one character is the same as another. There are no different classes with different abilities to keep me interested (I'm an altoholic).

At this point, knowing full well that there is a ship progression in GSF, I really don't want to start another separate grind. I don't even have enough game time as it is right now to do the existing Galactic Command grind to my satisfaction.

I think you can get Unassembled Components from GSF now, right? That adds a little incentive, but I'd much rather run warzones to the same result. Why go in with a noobie ship and get blown away with my limited time when I can go into a warzone and have some decent gear, have knowledge and experience with what I am doing?

EDIT: Woah, there are actual GSF forums?! I had no idea!! This is my first post in here, just saw this in dev tracker.
SS
Malovo - Marauder

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
07.06.2017 , 02:22 PM | #14
The biggest deterrent for me is similar to PVP and that's the "gearing" aspect.

I tried it out and just found it really not fun to get annihilated so fast and basically no chance to really learn how to play, it was not enjoyable at all. I found in time this is "just how it is" due to the nature of "gearing/developing your ships" so yet again another, what could be awesome, PVP aspect of the game ruined by game and this was FAR worse than standard PVP - at least you can actually get a bit of a game in during PVP.

I suggest removing any aspect of gearing/ship development that gives stat advantages in GSF if you ever want it to be popular, it's not fun. Find other things for people to look to obtain such as vanity items, currency etc. etc.

Failing that a PVE aspect to GSF would be at least semi helpful to allow us to a) learn how the hell it play it without getting annihilated constantly b) develop the gear we need via the PVE aspect so when we do go into PVP we aren't massively disadvantaged.

I can see some promise with GSF but as a new player it was not fun at all, the grind doesn't seem worth it.
If you want to make money in this game you need to start thinking outside of the box in regards to "but this is how MMOs are" and think "would the everyday, casual player enjoy this?" because very few people are going to sit there for hours, not having fun just to grind to a point where they can have fun - they'll go do something else and I would think your metrics would support the part about people going to do something else (be it within game or leaving game entirely).

LadyAdmiral's Avatar


LadyAdmiral
07.06.2017 , 02:31 PM | #15
I never got into GSF because there is no basic missions to test your skills and practice before you are on a team that is relying on you not to crash into asteroids. You can only practice on other people's time. The intro quest does not count, it's really bad and impossible to practice in with all the pop ups.

I've personally given up on playing it, but if that existed I think a lot more casual players would be interested in trying it out like casual pvp with friends.
~ Swtorista

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
07.06.2017 , 02:35 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
#1 reason, and this is coming from regular GSFer. I don't play on alts and even increased requisition gains won't change that. GSF is a side-game, you cannot expect people to maintain dozens of ships separately on every alt. If Strongholds were character-specific, they would never be as popular.

That and lack of PVE Starfighter. This is PVE-primarly game. GSF is completly separated from existing on-rails PVE space minigame both in gameplay and gearing. One doesn't benefit the other and doesn't encourage trying out and continuing to play the other. Not to mention, most players will never even try PVP before having an extensive experience in PVE.

hillerbees's Avatar


hillerbees
07.06.2017 , 02:35 PM | #17
Hi there,

I'm a Founder player who plays all aspects of the game.

I am always the guy at the bottom of the GSF leaderboard (yeah I know - I'm sorry). I'm so bad at it I even get reminders that unless I participate I will be removed from the game!! Despite this I have completed about 50 games since its launch and have won half of them (sorry I've been successfully carried in half of them).

In no other part of SWTOR do I feel so useless and I enjoy most of it most of the time.

I feel, like others, that the tutorial provided is completely inadequate. I have at times gone to Youtube in seach of fan help - but this should not be the way forward.

To me, this part of the game feels so removed from the rest of the game in terms of the demands put on your ability that it should be a separate stand alone game. I'll put it this way: If Battlefront was to be incorporated into this game as the PVP module I would feel more at home with that than I do with this fighter pilot simulator.

I feel that if GSF is to be continued, it needs to be dumbed down (for want of a better term) considerably to accommodate and encourage your average player to participate. This might not please those who are hardcore at it but I would counter that argument and say that you don't see everyone being forced to do ranked pvp as the only option in PVP or Nightmare Mode ops in PVE content.

I applaud the efforts to have a space battle module but I think that this is way too tough on most people who give it a look and then walk (or fly) away.

I look forward to see how you resolve the problems within GSF and thank you for reading how THAT guy who is bottom of the leaderboard feels.

krfsm's Avatar


krfsm
07.06.2017 , 02:38 PM | #18
Low hanging fruit that could improve things for new players:

1) It's very easy to get disoriented as a new player, especially in death match. Flying straight into the enemy camp while being chased makes you an easy kill.
Solution: Put up waypoint markers on the capital ships, so you can head for one of those when you want to run away towards safety.

2) Gunships should start with max zoom out when going into sniping mode, as that's what everyone normally wants anyway.

3) Put up some defense turrets around one of the satellites in the tutorial, so people can practice how to kill those. Nothing makes you feel bad as a newcomer as when you're free at a node and get killed by the turrets.

4) Newcomers often leave matches with zero medals, especially in death match. The criteria for medals are too high for newcomers, while they're easy to pass for experienced pilots. Add an extra medal level for kills, assists, and damage:
  • 1 kill (this is reason enough to celebrate for a new pilot)
  • 2 assists (doable for most people)
  • 5k damage (still hard for very new pilots, but feels much more reasonable to aim for as a new player than 10k)

Other stuff that's a bit harder to do:

4) Fix mouse sensitivity and make it separately adjustable ingame, so one can play both the regular game and GSF without fiddling with the mouse settings. Without this, a newcomer can't hit the inside of a hangar. Also, make this so you can have reasonable mouse movement when using the free mouse mode.

5) Create a clear "UP" marker in the UI. While there is a leveling key, that doesn't work if you're trying to do something besides flying straight and being a target. Having a clear up indicator solves this.

6) Make it possible for people to load into all of the maps to have a look around. Newbies are very disadvantaged in that they don't find their way around the map. Also, make it possible for them to load in with their own ships. It's fine if there's nothing but a bunch of turrets around the satellite, and all the deathmatch powerup locations filled.

7) In deathmatch, have capital ships power up their guns for the losing team when they're enough behind (5-10 kills or so), and make an ops announcment about it. When it's more even, they power down again. (This is to prevent spawn camping.)

8) Newcomers spend very much time dying, being shot at, and running away from people chasing them. Neither of this is considered contributing, even if I keep 5 people busy shooting at me so my team can cap, if I don't hit anybody else. Make it so being hit and being targeted for missile lock counts as contributing.

9) Make it possible to make buffs and debuffs much bigger in the UI, so it's easier to notice them. (Max size possible in interface editor is still too small.)

10) I don't know if it currently is showing in any way, but it would be good if evasion showed around the ship in some way. If it does, it's not clear enough to be noticed. (And the "evaded" flytext suggestion from above is a good idea too.)

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
07.06.2017 , 02:39 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
The biggest deterrent for me is similar to PVP and that's the "gearing" aspect.

I tried it out and just found it really not fun to get annihilated so fast and basically no chance to really learn how to play, it was not enjoyable at all. I found in time this is "just how it is" due to the nature of "gearing/developing your ships" so yet again another, what could be awesome, PVP aspect of the game ruined by game and this was FAR worse than standard PVP - at least you can actually get a bit of a game in during PVP.

I suggest removing any aspect of gearing/ship development that gives stat advantages in GSF if you ever want it to be popular, it's not fun. Find other things for people to look to obtain such as vanity items, currency etc. etc.

Failing that a PVE aspect to GSF would be at least semi helpful to allow us to a) learn how the hell it play it without getting annihilated constantly b) develop the gear we need via the PVE aspect so when we do go into PVP we aren't massively disadvantaged.

I can see some promise with GSF but as a new player it was not fun at all, the grind doesn't seem worth it.
If you want to make money in this game you need to start thinking outside of the box in regards to "but this is how MMOs are" and think "would the everyday, casual player enjoy this?" because very few people are going to sit there for hours, not having fun just to grind to a point where they can have fun - they'll go do something else and I would think your metrics would support the part about people going to do something else (be it within game or leaving game entirely).
You need maybe 30 games to gear a ship right now. I feel like that's more than reasonable. You still need to play CXP if you want to gear up your ground PVP alts, so how is this any different? The power difference between mastered and stock (with the right components) is small, and you need only a few games to get the low tier upgrades. A stock ship can and does perform well in the hands of someone who understands what's going on.

It's not a gearing issue; it's a player issue. Someone who has played six thousand games is going to annihilate someone who has only played two.

With that said, I wouldn't mind making gearing even easier if only to end arguments like this one.

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
07.06.2017 , 02:40 PM | #20
what are "friction" points