Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Is it wrong that, revisiting SoR, made me think what the hell went wrong w KotFE?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Is it wrong that, revisiting SoR, made me think what the hell went wrong w KotFE?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
06.28.2017 , 10:06 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Zolxtren View Post
my ONLY issue is how the Emperor gone a 360 with its personality and thinking....

i personaly liked the NEW changed emperor

but i hate when MAIN characters Instantly change Personality out of tin air and this drasticaly with 0 buildup ....

like BOOM now your like this deal with it..... you were totaly different for thousands of years but who cares BAM your like this now......
While I think the KotFE / KotET plotline had its share of problems (particularly being way too 'one-size-fits-all' with respect to awkwardly fitting in the non-Force User classes and the player character often feeling like a supporting role), Valkorian's personality is one of the things I particularly liked, and it didn't strike me as a plot hole the way it did for others.

One of my absolute favorite lines from the vanilla game is when you encounter the Emperor in the Jedi Knight's story and he gives his big villain speech about out why he wants to be an immortal god:
  • "You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

That is a villain I can easily believe was already spending centuries of his ageless life building Zakuul - exploring what it was to build a "perfect" society where he was a beloved ruler (and even as close to 'benevolent' as he is capable of), and exploring what it was to fall in love and have children. (Which, of course, he is terrible at since the guy is legitimately evil to the core as we already knew.) If anything, it's the Vitiate we see on Ziost that I think is out-of-character given what we see both before and after.

There is a Vitiate / Valkorian plot hole that I do think the narrative really should have filled in explicitly, rather than leave it up to the player to head!canon: whether the Emperor was willing to lose Zakuul as a necessary sacrifice in his "start a chain reaction that will wipe out all life in the galaxy" attempt at godhood (so going back to Zakuul to launch a new war in KotFE was his "Plan B" scenario), or if he was only being half-truthful with the Knight, and had the ability / intention all along to spare Zakuul from his galaxy-wide death wave, leaving his perfect, "eternal" society (which already worshiped him) with an open galaxy left behind to colonize and repopulate as a monument to his glory.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

Refer A Friend Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2gNj3d to get the free stuff detailed here

MingusPho's Avatar


MingusPho
06.29.2017 , 12:53 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by storm-cutter View Post

the plot was full of holes, no-ne cared much about the valkorians, no-one wanted to be frozen then awakened with nothing changed in the meantime.

I'm sure they would have retained more players if all that money and effort had been put into new planets, new dailies, new maps, new questlines, new events, new operations, new pvp maps, more spaceflight. - class specific stories or elements of story.

Such a wasted opportunity to make this game great.

2 people on nar shaddaa this lunchtime. - just 2.

Did they blow millions of dollars to keep 2 people on one server amused?
for realz

btmart's Avatar


btmart
06.29.2017 , 01:09 AM | #43
I'll repost this because I'm lazy:
Quote:
I dunno about story.. I guess you can retcon everything in your head I suppose. The worst thing about KOTFE/KOTET was the actual game play. It was every bit of the word horrible if you looked it up in a Thesaurus! Game play was NOT fun and repeating it was literally slamming my hands on the keyboard getting frustrated because of scripted mobs and endless stupid skytroopers. Terrible (TERRIBLE!!) game play.

It was mostly trying to keep me logged in as long as possible to complete the content. And BW, you know this, so lets not play. Don't try this ploy again. KOTFE/KOTET was the worst gameplay I've ever experienced.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
06.29.2017 , 01:46 AM | #44
The only loose end that doesn't really feel tied up to me is why Vitiate all of the sudden decided to drop his "Kill everyone in the galaxy for immortality" bid, which is featured heavily in the jedi knight story, as well as Shadow of Revan, to actually ruling the galaxy with his utopia in Wild Space and the vast technological marvels he discovered from Iokath.

I mean, he flat out says in Chapter 1 of KOTFE that Zaakul is his focus (in response to Marr claiming it was his distraction.) By Chapter 9 of KOTET it is clear he always wanted his empire back. The events of the Jedi Knight story are, per game canon, like what, a couple years before Chapter 1? Ziost is what, 6 months before the events of chapter 1? So basically, as recently as a few months before his adult sons began their campaign to test the core, he still thought the best thing to do for his goals was to kill everything in the galaxy, but now he's had a change of heart? We learn in the Dashade recruit mission in chapter 13 of KOTFE that Vitiate visited the Yavin 4 moon centuries before (but after Exar Kun) and planned to use the machine to gain immortality then. It's not that I doubt its possible he had a change of heart per se. But he achieved his utopian society and found love (with Senya), and bore three children long before the events of the Jedi Knight story take place. Are we meant to take away from the story that the player, impressing Vitiate with their feeble attempt to stop the massacre on Ziost, somehow drove the emperor to change his mind about galactic annihilation? How does that reconcile with his statement that he built Zaakul to surpass all his previous works, and that he found "true love" with Senya, all the while planning ritualistic galactic destruction with Revan in stasis and Lord Scourge executing Vitiate's wrath? Ruling utopia with an unstoppable droid armada was a better means to the his end of immortality than dark side rituals, or a better end in and of itself? Surely he can't intend to use the Eternal Fleet to extinguish all life in the galaxy, since its clear Dark Side Force rituals were needed to feed his immortality, so the desire to rule with the power of the Eternal Throne and its Fleet must be his true current motivation. The timing just feels off with the rest of the game and Legends material. The only thing I can think of is that he only let Revan and Scourge think he was going to destroy everything for immortality, when really all he wanted was to destabilize the core galactic powers. And really, that means the Republic and its Jedi Order, since he was presumably working hard on the Eternal Empire even during the events of the Returned trailer when the Sith Empire returned to Korriban. Is this implied in the Revan novel? Are we to conclude that the rituals of the JK story, the Yavin 4 machine, and Ziost, were merely meant to increase his power as Valkorion, and weaken his only serious opposition, but he never needed them to be immortal. Or maybe he's like a vampire ... he wants to rule and has the resources to do it with the Fleet, but needs to refill his immortality tank every once in a while by destroying all life on a planet or two? Scourge just had the project scope wrong?

I have other loose ends too. For example, in Chapter 2 of KOTET, Vitiate tells you he found Valkorion centuries prior and he was a great warrior for the planet. But we also know from KOTET Chapter 4-5, and the Iokath daily story line, that the builders of Iokath tested the Eternal Fleet and the superweapon droids on ancient Zaakul, giving rise to the mythology (in which Valkorion is well versed). And Koth says the stories about the Gravestone (also part of the Iokathian weapon program) were that it was the only thing that stood up against the Fleet, and Vitiate acknowledges that the Gravestone isn't what he expected in KOTFE chapter 5, implying this is the first he's set eyes upon it. It would stand to reason that the Builders of Iokath used the Gravestone to tame their fleet after their weapons test on Zaakul, but it doesn't explain how Vitiate/Valkorion gained control of the Fleet. I guess when Vitiate found the ancient warrior known as Valkorion it was probably right after the test. He must have been intrigued by the prospect of an unstoppable fully automated fleet and reworked the Knights and the Scions to help him forge his Empire. I presume he must have gained control after the builders were killed by the superweapon or ARIES and its minions and his Knights and Scions were stronger. But its all educated guessing on my part so there's a lot of details we're missing there.

But that still doesn't compare to the apparent personality change from Vitiate to Valkorion. The time frames just don't jive. Knowing now what Charles Boyd said about how the trilogy of the Eternal Empire was condensed, I can't help but feel that we got robbed of some of these plot holes.
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.29.2017 , 06:37 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by commanderwar View Post
calm down man no need to make threats were all friends here. lol
Haha! Nice catch on the typo. Meant to say thread. That's what I get for using voice to text on my phone!

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.29.2017 , 06:41 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
While I think the KotFE / KotET plotline had its share of problems (particularly being way too 'one-size-fits-all' with respect to awkwardly fitting in the non-Force User classes and the player character often feeling like a supporting role), Valkorian's personality is one of the things I particularly liked, and it didn't strike me as a plot hole the way it did for others.

One of my absolute favorite lines from the vanilla game is when you encounter the Emperor in the Jedi Knight's story and he gives his big villain speech about out why he wants to be an immortal god:
  • "You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

That is a villain I can easily believe was already spending centuries of his ageless life building Zakuul - exploring what it was to build a "perfect" society where he was a beloved ruler (and even as close to 'benevolent' as he is capable of), and exploring what it was to fall in love and have children. (Which, of course, he is terrible at since the guy is legitimately evil to the core as we already knew.) If anything, it's the Vitiate we see on Ziost that I think is out-of-character given what we see both before and after.

There is a Vitiate / Valkorian plot hole that I do think the narrative really should have filled in explicitly, rather than leave it up to the player to head!canon: whether the Emperor was willing to lose Zakuul as a necessary sacrifice in his "start a chain reaction that will wipe out all life in the galaxy" attempt at godhood (so going back to Zakuul to launch a new war in KotFE was his "Plan B" scenario), or if he was only being half-truthful with the Knight, and had the ability / intention all along to spare Zakuul from his galaxy-wide death wave, leaving his perfect, "eternal" society (which already worshiped him) with an open galaxy left behind to colonize and repopulate as a monument to his glory.
Just a point, but your big proof with the line you quoted actually supports the conflict in his personality.

Yes he wanted to be all those simple things, but at the same time he also wanted to consume all life in the galaxy and be its creator. That line was delivered in that context by the original creative team. As he said in the line you quoted once the lights are all gone he'd start again.

Basically it feels like you kind of Cherry Picked something from that to justify your side of things while ignoring something else you quoted that actually supports what I was saying.

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
06.29.2017 , 10:53 AM | #47
The thing that went wrong with KotFE?

I think the writers and designers did a good job but all in all too many chapters for every class. Since the majority of us have alts it would've been neat to have certain chapters exclusive to their class. That way you as the player would have to put the missing puzzle pieces together across your legacy. The original class stories are actually made in this fashion especially the flashpoints.

If I were the executive producer of the project I would see that certain chapters weren't applicable to certain character classes and would've withheld them from certain classes for example:

Chapter 12 Visions in the Dark - would only be for force user classes Backpack hopping and meeting Marr Ghost and Senya to build a Saber
Chapter 13 Profit & Plunder - would only be available for non-force user classes The bank heist every smuggler/evil agent/soldier of fortune/bounty hunter yearns for

Having a legacy of a few alts at 65 would encourage subscribers to play both KOTFE & KOTET on different alts. Most people binge played the two expansions and it was just too much to take it all in. I truly believe people would've liked to play detective across their alt to learn the whole story. I personally felt weird being a bounty hunter in Chapter 12 and had no place being there. Conversely I don't think my light side force user would ever feel good about Chapter 13.

This approach to playing KOTFE/KOTET across your legacy would inevitably mean you didn't get certain companions . But let's face it would a Force user really have a need for someone like Gault? Or would a Trooper know what to do with Dasheed or Xalek? I would've made the executive call to write the majority of class companions into the two bulk of the two chapters. People who have yet to find their Vette or Kira have a right to be concerned at this point.

In conclusion KOTFE/ET were great they just should've made it so you played it across your legacy instead of giving every class the whole enchilada.
I grok in fullness.
― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

docbenwayddo's Avatar


docbenwayddo
06.29.2017 , 11:08 AM | #48
We were living in the Happy Days of swtor story when they decided to move us across Milwaukee and give us Laverne and Shirley. Travel plans got confused and we didn't even end up with Mork and Mindy in Colorado, but instead we end up in Chicago, suffering through Joanie Loves Chachi for 2 seasons.

Quraswren's Avatar


Quraswren
06.29.2017 , 11:26 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by docbenwayddo View Post
We were living in the Happy Days of swtor story when they decided to move us across Milwaukee and give us Laverne and Shirley. Travel plans got confused and we didn't even end up with Mork and Mindy in Colorado, but instead we end up in Chicago, suffering through Joanie Loves Chachi for 2 seasons.
You sir deserve all the internet points for today.
Current subscriber: Refer code: http://www.swtor.com/r/t4QfLH
What you get: http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

Darkbloom's Avatar


Darkbloom
06.29.2017 , 11:34 AM | #50
Here is what I found so strange.

I was not expecting this at all.

As time went on, during 4.x, I found myself enjoying the Alliance Alerts more than the cinematic story chapters. I was dumbfounded. How could this be happening? Why on earth would I enjoy these "classic conversations" more than the cinematic experience?

I've been thinking about it, and I think the reason is that my character mattered in the Alliance Alerts. The Skadge alert, for instance. That alert has many different ways it can end, depending on your choices. So my character mattered. And different characters I had did that alert in different ways.

Even if I did the Alert the same way every time, I knew that it could end differently. So, it mattered.

I also think that I just really missed the "MMO feel" of places where you could wander about, get side-quests, find odd things, explore. Like the planet we visited with Gault and Vette. That was a cool planet. It was like Hutta, only better. But then we didn't get to do anything there except go through the story--which was the exact same story every time...