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Is it wrong that, revisiting SoR, made me think what the hell went wrong w KotFE?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Is it wrong that, revisiting SoR, made me think what the hell went wrong w KotFE?
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Kittybear's Avatar


Kittybear
06.28.2017 , 02:39 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Kolskeggur View Post
12 characters? Are you mad?

I've done KotET on two chars (one LS on Rep side, one DS on Imp side). I've got a few chars parked on chapter 9 of KotFE. I got a multitude of 70s that won't ever even start KotFE. Because it have no replayability whatsoever. You play it once on DS/LS each, and that's that. There's nothing left. It's just tedious, and I won't even start on how disconnected it all feels towards the class stories and even RotHC/SoR.
i do intend to push all my 52 chars trough it at some point, if i will survive the madness i do not know

Kniferunner's Avatar


Kniferunner
06.28.2017 , 06:15 AM | #12
Having played KotFE and some of KotET, I'm actually skipping those expansions. The dull companions is what's killing me. Would like to join Vaylin/Arcann anytime.

I don't like playing an alliance leader, again. (Played a consular where you had to do the same thing.)
Barely any class specific options. My light side healing sage can't teach anything to Vaylin, or vice versa? What about converting her to the light side? That's what my sage did before the expansions.
Actually, the point is, choices do not matter and/or are limited.

Would like to see an update for these expansions. Don't care about class balance at all, since I don't play PvP anyway. Though I know many people do.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.28.2017 , 06:47 AM | #13
Well at the very least I'm glad there are others out there who feel the same way I do. The sad thing is I have very little hope that anything will change. In another thread the lead writer Charles Boyd defended both expansions. I hate saying it but if he thinks that level of writing is what makes it passible then we may need a different lead writer, one that understands the importance of consistency and continuity within an overall story.

But I doubt that will happen. From here on out I think the game is going to have just spatterings of group content here and there, is the use what budget they have just to tell stories through operations and flashpoints. And maybe daily areas.

I sadly think the time of invigorating and interesting stories in SWTOR is over. I think the game has a solid enough Foundation that with the right creative team and the right marketing it could absolutely make a comeback, however I think they got the producer this game needed one producer too late. They needed the guy they have now back before they made Knights of the Fallen Empire Knights of the Eternal throne. They needed someone who was a player- focused producer to be able to step in and say "hold on we can't do this because it's going to screw over the people playing and drive off the number of people who will be upset about the change of Direction with the story. Not to mention stalling out on group content while we work on these things is going to drive off the guilds who are usually run by people who do operations."

Too little too late now I think. Such a damn shame. This game will always be known for unfulfilled potential, and I am willing to bet that the wrong messages will be taken from this game for future games. What I mean is, people will look at the fully voiced over MMO and think that this is what caused SWTOR to fail as well as the 8 Class stories, when in truth those were the reasons why people played the game in the first place and were what drew people to the game.

Strategically, the reasons the game ended up failing to live up to its potential goes back to a couple of decisions made by the original team that did not pan out or backfired.

The first of those decisions was to do unlimited class story. Eight class stories when you have a definitive beginning middle and end can at least be budgeted for. In fact, you can even make more money by selling alternative class stories once the originals are completed and you would have a known budget for what that would take. Not to mention by having a concrete beginning middle and end to the story you better are able to Pace the story out over the Myriad of planets and can write a compact and entertaining story that doesn't drag in spots because you know from the beginning where the story is going.

By saying the game will have unlimited class story from the beginning, all that meant was eventually budget would dry up for the 8 Class stories and we would end up in the situation we are in now.

The other creative decision that bit them in the rear end and I know players will not think this is the real reason because of their disposition, but the fact that they went subscriber-only at the beginning and did not do the planned Cartel Market meant that they felt the pinch of every left subscriber. The Cartel Market rescued the game when subscribership was dwindling. If they had it from the beginning, they may have had enough budget to make Makeb and maybe a few planets afterwards with all 8 Class stories. Not having the freemium model in place from the beginning hurt the game.

Other decisions ended up hurting them big time as well. Not understanding how quickly players would churn through the story content is a major one, and wasting development time on the original space version of the game that played like a rebel assault minigame was development time that could have been better used to add more class story or even the quality of life improvements we eventually got.

Even with these early mistakes, when the development team got rolled over and they were able to get enough cash in from the cartel shops to start developing content again, the producers in charge sadly were just a yes-man interested in making quick money on a project EA no longer considered to be a major part of their portfolio. With better to leadership back then from the top the game could have recovered.

Sorry for the rant but it's frustrating. This game had so much potential, and now it's squandered all that potential and I don't think it'll ever be any more than it is right now. It's almost like seeing a 40 year old 7ft guy on a basketball court in the neighborhood with skills that could have easily allowed him to play in the NBA but he never made it because for all his potential, he just kept screwing around doing other things and never really dedicating himself to being a top-flight basketball player, even as people around him were trying to support him and push him in that direction. And now that life has passed him by and that opportunity is gone all that is left is Regret about what could have been.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
06.28.2017 , 06:57 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Well at the very least I'm glad there are others out there who feel the same way I do. The sad thing is I have very little hope that anything will change. In another thread the lead writer Charles Boyd defended both expansions. I hate saying it but if he thinks that level of writing is what makes it passible then we may need a different lead writer, one that understands the importance of consistency and continuity within an overall story.

.
Can you quote the post you're referring to? That aside, I don't want a new writer!! I like Charles!
That doesn't mean there aren't any flaws in the latest expansions however. But I'd like to see what you mean by Charles defending both expansions.
#Arcannite
For The Empire

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
06.28.2017 , 07:35 AM | #15
Fallen Empire was a great story but what made it suck was two things

1) Poor class story deviation - What made SWTOR's premise so impactful for players was that every story was unique, and considered their class features, personification and plot direction carefully in its design.
Fallen Empire + Eternal Throne completely ignored this.
It's like basically neglecting the core thing that made the game famous in the first place

2) Poor game content follow up - no new dailies, no new mundane grinds, barely any new flashpoints, uprisings was a nice idea but very lacklustre in the reward system. Veteran and Master difficulty came so late, Fallen Empire Master difficulty came on Eternal Throne's release. and again, poor rewarding and follow ups.
And then they just slap a grind system on you like CXP and expect you to basically repeat something you've been repeating for the last 3 years.
It's one thing to give people stuff to do, but if its not rewarding, who the hell is gonna do it?
This also came with horrible class balance changes, where 3 classes who weren't top tier got nerfed to oblivion, another 2 were completely neglected and 2 got far too much attention to call it "class balancing". Player's struggle to feel the 'growth' concept that people tend to anticipate during expansion releases. No new abilities, nothing fun and innovative to play with and admire/appreciate your class even more
Nothing new in pvp. No new areas to visit or explore with free roaming, the only areas you could access were so hardwired to the plot, you cant even revist 90% of those areas with the exception of odessen & Old world where there is nothing to do.
Kinda hard to even call it an expansion.

But hey, at least they updated the Cartel Market freque- ... give me a break

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
06.28.2017 , 07:48 AM | #16
Huge budget spent on cinematics, trailers, cutscenes, new textures, faces expressions....The production values are almost as good as any Hollywood blockbuster or top-notch anime.

Only they forgot to make any meaningful story, forgot that it's STAR WARS, made no memorable stories or villains or locations or anything awesome.

- Can anyone remember what Gault and Vette were doing robbing a spaceship, can anyone remember what he Gemini programme was all about, can anyone remember why Vaylin went back to her childhood prison? What the agenda was with the scions? What Tanno Vic was doinf before being reunited, how all your former companions conveniently ended up on Zakuul without knowing who you were? What you had to go to Darvanis for?

The plot was full of holes, no-ne cared much about the Valkorians, no-one wanted to be frozen then awakened with nothing changed in the meantime.

I'm sure they would have retained more players if all that money and effort had been put into new planets, new dailies, new maps, new questlines, new events, new operations, new pvp maps, more spaceflight. - Class specific stories or elements of story.

Such a wasted opportunity to make this game great.

2 people on Nar Shaddaa this lunchtime. - just 2.

Did they blow millions of dollars to keep 2 people on one server amused?
-Storm Cutter.
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Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
06.28.2017 , 08:11 AM | #17
Quote:
I'm sure they would have retained more players if all that money and effort had been put into new planets, new dailies, new maps, new questlines, new events, new operations, new pvp maps, more spaceflight. - Class specific stories or elements of story.
^^ This right here ^^

Quraswren's Avatar


Quraswren
06.28.2017 , 08:19 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by PetFish View Post
I give them credit for what they attempted to do with Knights but for me it's a big fail.


SNIP...
Same here. I get they tried to put in some effort to make the solo story as good as class stories but that was never going to happen.

SOR, KotFE and KotET are all so terrible in their own ways I found it best to just pretend they never happened and skip them on as many alts as possible.

What went wrong? bw and their story writing took a nose dive combined with the design and development of the current game around pushing those less than interesting one story for all spawn fest scenarios. Only a hand full of chapters striking interest while the rest are just complete let downs.
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menofhorror's Avatar


menofhorror
06.28.2017 , 10:23 AM | #19
Things change. Producers make mistakes since they are only people too. This game had a lot of passion put into it but also made a lot of mistakes. But with a big project like that it's bound to happen. Of course I agree with your criticism regarding the story though but what's done is done.

I don't play KOTFE and just stop with Shadow Revan. Though I thought SOR had quite a long list of story problems as well but it had that one class mission and even the class mails you get between the Forged Alliances flashpoints help for replayability.

I understand your frustration but in the end it's a game and the moment that frustration consumes you when thinking about the game you need to stop and unsubscribe. I took a one-time sub for the summer and enjoy myself and look forward to the next patches and I like the changes they made recently. That's all there is.

GENXPS's Avatar


GENXPS
06.28.2017 , 11:14 AM | #20
They spent so much time and money on 2 expansions that did nothing but hurt this MMO. they should have made a SOR like exp again then the last 2