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Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
06.21.2017 , 02:45 PM | #41
I find DarthSpuds and fifteendollers posts very interesting as it totally shows the split between the player base.

I guess some of the answer to DarthSpuds question lies in James Ohlen interview some time ago. He mentioned they thought 5.0 would be appreciated by most and launched it as is, contrary to the testers feedback. They admitted they were wrong but only realized it too late.

My take is they did not really had the time to do that much tweaking so they messed up. In a way it's the same issue they had with the NGE, they though the more casual players would love it and were willing to sacrifice the smaller population : the hardcore ones.

Most annoying is how long it took to try to fix it. Even now we are still with a system more complex and more painful than before.

I've been working in the video game industry and it certainly reminds me a situation in which the lead designer was wrong and in the end we had to go with his decision no matter the amount of effort spent to explain to him the issue. Even the producer throw the towel on that one.

Guess what... once live the issue was indeed real and we had to patch it.

Back to SWTOR... regarding the feedback players explained on the forums the 25% bonus for the CXP ain't gonna be enough, still it went live. Guess the focus groups, the social media, the influencers liked it.

My take is they did not like it but BioWare needs to keep players grinding, at least they think so.
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
06.21.2017 , 02:45 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by fifteendollers View Post
Don't know if you've noticed, but certain things have changed since 5.0.
There should not have been a 5.0 in the way it was things changes they did damage control but damage control will not bring back the players that left.

They warned the staff time and time and time and time again that its not an good idea. They went with it and they payed the price.

If they admit they where wrong things can go a long way to show players that they are listened and right.

Alssaran's Avatar


Alssaran
06.21.2017 , 02:46 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by fifteendollers View Post
Don't know if you've noticed, but certain things have changed since 5.0.
That's not the point he was making.

It was previously established that Galactic Command at it's earliest level is a completely ridiculous idea. The support for that feature ranged closer to zero than to evening out with the negative or passive feedback. Most people were either completely neutral on it (i.g "Let's see), like myself, or they absolutely detested it. The community was universally critic about the sole source of set gear being random loot crates. That went on for two months before the feature even released.

I can't imagine that any streamer, blogger, or YouTuber seriously took a look at these changes and said: "This is a splendid idea!" Nobody on the highest tier of raiding and PvPing, which streamers usually are, likes the idea of not receiving set loot for a flashpoint or ranked commendations. I know. I was a competitive raider for most of my BC and WotLK years in WoW. The idea of not receiving loot for dungeons would have killed my guild within a week.

That's his entire point, and from a purely objective viewpoint, I can agree. If Eric participated in countless meetings with the (back then) Lead Designer and aggregated the feedback from the forums into reports, how can that feature have been launched the way it has? How could it have taken them seven months after expansion release to offer the 230 gear on a vendor? How could they have needed a flowchart to explain the new gearing system after four to five months of the expansion being out?

It's not a mean or negative question, but it's a valid question. What they are saying about focus groups and listening to bloggers such as swtorista makes perfect sense. I can completely get behind Eric there. But if he handed in these player reports about how Galactic Command's gearing system was ripped to shreds just as it was announced by a lot of people on YouTube, reddit, this forum, bloggers, and even people like the aforementioned swtorista, then I don't understand how anyone could have pushed through while sticking to that development mentality up there.

I don't blame Eric, but something must have gone horribly wrong during the early 4.X and 5.0 development cycle.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
06.21.2017 , 02:47 PM | #44 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Xo-Lara View Post
Great. Now can we get some guidelines on how to make our feedback more helpful/understandable to the team?
Great question! The most important thing you can ever put in feedback is why. Saying that you do or don't like something is helpful, telling us why is invaluable. This way when I am passing feedback on to the team I can highlight not only just sentiment (positive or negative) but also give supporting context for that feeling.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
06.21.2017 , 02:55 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Great question! The most important thing you can ever put in feedback is why. Saying that you do or don't like something is helpful, telling us why is invaluable. This way when I am passing feedback on to the team I can highlight not only just sentiment (positive or negative) but also give supporting context for that feeling.

-eric
Why - How - What... you guys are too much into Apple mindset (kidding)

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scardera's Avatar


scardera
06.21.2017 , 03:05 PM | #46
Remember when we told you before 5.0 the Command Cxp system was a bad idea (since the system improved but still) remember when we told you you over nerfed Sorc and PT ? you didnt listen and now you dont listen what we told you about ARsenal you gonna over nerf it and kill another spec

sam-marc's Avatar


sam-marc
06.21.2017 , 03:05 PM | #47
Edited - Replied to wrong post (Silly me!)
My name is Sam, I run the channel SWTOR Central.
A SWTOR dedicated YouTube channel here to provide you with helpful guides, bad PvP matches and much more. Visit at your own risk.... Seriously though, click this link. I know you want to. www.youtube.com/swtorcentral

sam-marc's Avatar


sam-marc
06.21.2017 , 03:07 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Seems these influencers hold a good degree of sway. Not saying that as a bad thing, but it could provide some very limited feedback given how much it is weighted - my point being, those hardcore enough to put up a stream, a blog, etc likely skew mostly towards endgame if I had to guess, be that PvP or Operations. Only reason I say that is because from a personality profile standpoint, the people who are playing just to enjoy the story are less likely to be someone who is dedicated enough to start up something like that.

That doesn't mean those influencers hate story - nothing is black and white - but it is more likely they don't hold story in the same regard as others, as leveling for them is about spacebarring content to get to endgame as quick as possible to engage in how they choose to enjoy the game.

The forums used to be a bastion for the pro-story people, although with the reduced numbers, I do wonder if many have moved on - I remember people leaving in waves after the initial announcement of no more class story, and then another wave after KotFE ended up going off in a very strange and different direction than what came before to the point where some said it didn't fee like Star Wars.

I guess what I am wondering is, while I do think all this feedback is important, where is BioWare getting their story feedback from? Because I feel like if they were getting quality feedback on story, the KotFE/KotET debacle could have been avoided in the first place, and even with it there now, there are story options to get the game back on track to what the people who left originally fell in love with, so long as the team is willing to listen to that feedback and willing to change some things, both going forward, and also some restructuring of what's already been released (so as to re-use assets)...
Hello there! I am one of the SWTOR Influencers and I feel like I should repsond to your post.

While yes endgame is something I like to do, it's not necessarily what I will upload / stream.
I do in fact love the story in this game and have expressed this before. I think (While not too common) that KoTET and KoTFE were fantastic and a real flashback to KOTOR. Yes, KOTOR is king

Anyways, what I would like to say is that we Influencers do realise that our input can have some "sway" which is why (And I don't speak for all of us) that I try to keep the ENTIRE community in mind when giving feedback. In fact, more often than not I will direct Eric to feedback from viewers of my channel rather than myself. I could give you an excellent example of feedback I gave with the community in mind to the devs but as Eric pointed out earlier, we are NDA and can't talk about such things. So, please be assured that I will do my best when it comes to the future of this game in any way I can, for all aspects.

I hope this helps you
My name is Sam, I run the channel SWTOR Central.
A SWTOR dedicated YouTube channel here to provide you with helpful guides, bad PvP matches and much more. Visit at your own risk.... Seriously though, click this link. I know you want to. www.youtube.com/swtorcentral

HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
06.21.2017 , 03:10 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Great question! The most important thing you can ever put in feedback is why. Saying that you do or don't like something is helpful, telling us why is invaluable. This way when I am passing feedback on to the team I can highlight not only just sentiment (positive or negative) but also give supporting context for that feeling.

-eric
Yes! That is what has been lacking in almost every post. Constructive feedback involves stating what one does or doesn't like, why that is so, and suggestions to make it better.

When one doesn't say why they dislike something, the scenario is like this:

Waiter: How's your food?

Customer: I don't like it.

Waiter: You don't? Why not?

Customer: I don't like it.

Waiter: But why?

Customer: I don't like it.

Waiter:

Customer:

Hmm.... That didn't go anywhere. Let's see what happens when you say *why*.

Waiter: How's your food?

Customer: I don't like it.

Waiter: You don't? Why not?

Customer: It's a bit over done, and has too much salt to it. However I do love the amount of sauce used. That is set perfectly, and the side dishes are wonderful.

Waiter: I can take what you didn't like back and have it redone. Would you like that?

Customer: Yes. That would be great. Thanks!

Waiter and Customer:
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HKtheindomitable's Avatar


HKtheindomitable
06.21.2017 , 03:14 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
Why - How - What... you guys are too much into Apple mindset (kidding)

Ha ha. If they had the Apple mindset, they would be charging us $50 for all customization options, and $200 for each expansion. Our subscription would be $500.
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