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Discussion Topic: Master Mode Operation Gear Drops

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Discussion Topic: Master Mode Operation Gear Drops
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
06.14.2017 , 03:29 PM | #1 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey folks,

Since the launch of Galactic Command we have made great strides to change it to be a supporting gearing system versus the primary means of gearing your characters. We still have improvements to make and we will be talking more about gearing methodology in an upcoming discussion topic. For today, we really want to focus on the drops currently coming from Master Mode Operations, as this has been a hot topic. Letís start with some context on how gearing currently works for Operations at each difficulty (all examples assume 8-player):

Story Mode Operations:
  • Each boss drops a specific Tier 2 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Soa in Eternity Vault will always drop 2 offhands

Veteran Mode Operations:
  • Each boss drops a specific Tier 3 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Soa in Eternity Vault will always drop 2 offhands

Master Mode Operations:
  • Each non-final boss in an Operation will drop random Tier 4 Prototype and/or Artifact quality item
    • Ex: Killing Nefra in Dread Fortress will drop 2 random items which will be of Prototype or Artifact quality
  • Each final boss of an Operation will drop a specific Tier 4 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Dread Master Brontes in Dread Fortress will always drop 2 gloves

Gods From the Machine does not follow the above rules. Here is how that works:
  • Story Mode Ė Each boss will drop a specific Tier 3 Legendary item
    • Ex: Tyth will always drop a Tier 3 relic
  • Veteran Mode Ė Each boss will drop a specific Tier 4 Legendary item
    • Ex: Tyth will always drop a Tier 3 relic

The key issue with Master Mode is the gear you are receiving isnít being consistently provided as it is with the other Tiers. The primary reason is we wanted the Gods from the Machine Operation to contain BiS gear and be the most consistent source for Tier 4 gear. But, since we only offer one boss encounter right now, itís making it difficult for you to obtain Tier 4 gear. We have been discussing two ideas to address this issue and would like your feedback:
  1. We double the amount of drops awarded in both 8 and 16-player difficulties. This means there is a random aspect of what is dropping, but there will be more chances of receiving Tier 4 gear based on the number of players participating in the Operation.
  2. We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss. This would mean that players running Master Mode would not only be receiving a chance at Tier 4 gear, but they are also working towards being able to upgrade/purchase the Tier 4 gear they need. We realize Unassembled Components have been attributed to PvP activities, but we could make that adjustment.

So what do you think? Do you like or dislike option 1 or 2 above? Is there something you are concerned about with either idea? What idea was not mentioned that you think could solve this? Let us know!

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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AscendingSky's Avatar


AscendingSky
06.14.2017 , 03:34 PM | #2
Please just go back to having a specific gear token dropping from each boss in MM ops. It's going to take you forever to finish Gods at the rate you're going. Having random assembled gear pieces drop as you are now (potentially for classes and specs not even present in the ops team!) only frustrates people and makes them not want to do the content. Dropping double the RNG items won't help matters much, if at all. Dropping Unassembled Components would not be sufficient reward either unless you dropped a ton of them for each player from each boss. Considering you can get UCs just from AFKing out in a corner of a PvP map or repeatedly smashing your ship into rocks in GSF all day, getting a few of them per MM boss (which you can only take down once a week per character!) would be an almost insulting gesture at this point.

There's too much RNG in this game already when it comes to gear and loot. Please cut it down a bit. Specific efforts should receive a specific reward every time, period.
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Danery's Avatar


Danery
06.14.2017 , 03:39 PM | #3
There isn't a master mode for ev so not sure why master mode gharj was mentioned. You would think you all knew which operations had master mode and which didn't
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GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
06.14.2017 , 03:40 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Since the launch of Galactic Command we have made great strides to change it to be a supporting gearing system versus the primary means of gearing your characters. We still have improvements to make and we will be talking more about gearing methodology in an upcoming discussion topic. For today, we really want to focus on the drops currently coming from Master Mode Operations, as this has been a hot topic. Letís start with some context on how gearing currently works for Operations at each difficulty (all examples assume 8-player):

Story Mode Operations:
  • Each boss drops a specific Tier 2 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Soa in Eternity Vault will always drop 2 offhands

Veteran Mode Operations:
  • Each boss drops a specific Tier 3 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Soa in Eternity Vault will always drop 2 offhands

Master Mode Operations:
  • Each non-final boss in an Operation will drop random Tier 4 Prototype and/or Artifact quality item
    • Ex: Killing Nefra in Dread Fortress will drop 2 random items which will be of Prototype or Artifact quality
  • Each final boss of an Operation will drop a specific Tier 4 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Dread Master Brontes in Dread Fortress will always drop 2 gloves

Gods From the Machine does not follow the above rules. Here is how that works:
  • Story Mode Ė Each boss will drop a specific Tier 3 Legendary item
    • Ex: Tyth will always drop a Tier 3 relic
  • Veteran Mode Ė Each boss will drop a specific Tier 4 Legendary item
    • Ex: Tyth will always drop a Tier 3 relic

The key issue with Master Mode is the gear you are receiving isnít being consistently provided as it is with the other Tiers. The primary reason is we wanted the Gods from the Machine Operation to contain BiS gear and be the most consistent source for Tier 4 gear. But, since we only offer one boss encounter right now, itís making it difficult for you to obtain Tier 4 gear. We have been discussing two ideas to address this issue and would like your feedback:
  1. We double the amount of drops awarded in both 8 and 16-player difficulties. This means there is a random aspect of what is dropping, but there will be more chances of receiving Tier 4 gear based on the number of players participating in the Operation.
  2. We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss. This would mean that players running Master Mode would not only be receiving a chance at Tier 4 gear, but they are also working towards being able to upgrade/purchase the Tier 4 gear they need. We realize Unassembled Components have been attributed to PvP activities, but we could make that adjustment.

So what do you think? Do you like or dislike option 1 or 2 above? Is there something you are concerned about with either idea? What idea was not mentioned that you think could solve this? Let us know!

-eric
I love option 2. I also think having more purple gear and not having the blue tier 4 drops would also help a lot, since the blue tier 4 drops are legitimately worse than the purple and legendary tier 3 drops.

Also, lots of the annoyance at having non legendary gear drop comes purely due to the possibility for gear that's not for you, or anyone in the group, dropping. While I understand having only tier 4 gear drop from Gods of the Machine is important to you guys, I think a significant logistical problem is simply that players are going to get tier 4 gear *anyway* due to PvP and Galactic Command.

I think Gear is going to have to be a lot less of a reward than it was before, and more par for the course, with more meaningful less gear based rewards being the impetus for raiding in SWTOR.
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
06.14.2017 , 03:41 PM | #5 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by Danery View Post
There isn't a master mode for ev so not sure why master mode gharj was mentioned. You would think you all knew which operations had master mode and which didn't
Copy/Pasta error on my part from one of the older versions of the post. Consider it fixed!

-eric
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CliffRedemption's Avatar


CliffRedemption
06.14.2017 , 03:45 PM | #6
Hey Eric,
I really liked idea number 2 a lot as i think that the unassembled component system was a fantastic addition for PvP. You might also consider talking to the developers about making CERTAIN veteran bosses drop BiS gear as well. For example - Revan veteran mode, Master Blaster veteran mode, etc.

auroroavalor's Avatar


auroroavalor
06.14.2017 , 03:49 PM | #7
Both options sound like an improvement, and if I had to pick I'd take option two. Was any thought given to adding tier 3 legendary tokens to the Master Mode operations loot table in place of the Prototype/Artifact shells currently dropping, I'd happily take the lower tier of gear and some unassembled components, knowing I could upgrade them to BiS in future. Just my two cents from a raider who pvp'ed my mains to BiS.
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teclado's Avatar


teclado
06.14.2017 , 03:49 PM | #8
The only skin I have in this game is that I consider myself primarily a PvP player, and option #2 involves Unassembled Components (currently a PvP reward). I have no problem with giving out UC in MM (AKA NiM) operations. Reward players for doing challenging things.

Now, I really wish that PvP gearing wasn't such a grind, and having PvE and PvP gear being the same creates a need for balancing the rewards for the two activities. Keep that in mind. It is currently faster to get full 236 and some 242 (EV/KP) via operations than to just straight up grind PvP (even Ranked). Then again, it is also currently easier (but time consuming) to grind warzones to go from 242-248. I think you are trying to fix this part right now.

I've killed maybe one NiM boss ever, so I won't comment on anything else.

EDIT: I clarified that I have no problem giving out UC in Master Mode ops. I didn't think anybody was going to suggest SM. It's all about the numbers of UC, difficulty, and time involved.
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Littlecorner's Avatar


Littlecorner
06.14.2017 , 03:52 PM | #9
How about:

a fixed number off components on each boss, xept last one wich will drop a token.

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
06.14.2017 , 03:57 PM | #10
I'd really prefer option 3, where all the Master Mode bosses drop 248 tokens. We won't be able to get BiS from Machine Gos for another 6 months.

But between the 2 options you gave, I'd prefer components. The random gear is pretty obnoxious, even doubling it would still cause a fair amount of frustration.

But to be clear, that's only if it was actually a decent amount of components. I'd suggest a sliding scale, where something like Nefra gives only a few (8) and then increasing by 4 or 8 each subsequent boss.

But if it would be an insulting low amount (like 2 or 4 per boss) I'd rather take my chances with the double drop.
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