Madness force management is much worse than you're suggesting, if you're constantly DPSing you will need to use consuming darkness within minutes, whereas Lightning can DPS and do some off healing and never have to use consuming darkness/run out of force since Lightning's rotation is force positive, meaning it's literally impossible to run out of force DPSing.

Either both Sorc DPS specs should have to use consuming darkness for sustained damage or madness needs better force regeneration, considering that Madness is pretty far done the list(barely above lighting in ST) in DPS ranking there's no reason for it to also need to use consuming darkness or risk running out of force.

Also you neglected to mention the sniper healing utility tied to ballistic shield that adds up to about a 60% heal over the duration.

playing Madness, I only ever have issues with force management if im in consistent combat forever or ive had to off heal someone quite a lot. It's not really an issue.

Wow.

 

I understand the biased hate towards mercs and snipers. Yet maybe you should at least play the class to know what they can do.

 

Sorcs healing sucks vs snipers auto-heal utilities. Do you mean actual utilities, but you said healing so I am assuming you mean the entire class in general. At any rate snipers have zero heal capability SHORT of choosing a utility and that is 2% heal every 3 seconds? Wow...talk about broken. If the sniper doesn't get attacked it could h2f from 1% hps every 2 1/2 mins. That's like a dcd cooldown!...well the time it takes to recharge one. The ballastic shield heal isn't that op either. A sorc could pop unnatural preservation and pretty much get the entire effect in that instant.

 

Mercs off heals don't hit as hard as dark heal...and the heat cost actually limits its ability to spam it as dps. Sorcs have a massive pull of force.

 

Also madness sorcs force isn't much of an issue unless you are in combat forever..and I mean a long time and that would have to include spamming dark heal over and over to limit your force.

Why would you assume I don't have all 3 classes, which I do, in fact.

My merc's heals and DCDs are by far stronger than my sage's. My sniper's defensive safeguard's heal for 3% per second + 60% ballistic shield bonus, not 2% every 3 seconds as you incorrectly stated. There are also very significant damage reduction bonuses and evasion, which make snipers' A LOT more durable than a sage. Some snipers have HUGE healing numbers at the end of the match. Just open your eyes. I face-tank mercs with my sniper no problem, but with a sage it's often a run away from execution.

Why do you keep arguing with people who main a sorc and are unhappy with class being made absolete for certain content, such as ranked PVP.

The only difference is that operatives are far from OP. What I said is true about them. What I say about sorc healers is true. Anyone who think sorc healers aren't gods either players one or has no idea how this game works. Sorc healers are the #1 class in this game. Since launch if you give an overall coverage of nerfs and buffs....sorcs have been the most favored class, constantly gaining new abilities each update without once losing anything. Even if a sorc spec lags behind, they have never once been left in the dark ages like say PT right now which are virtually useless unless played against inferior skilled players.

 

When it comes to utility the only other classes that come close to being as versatile and team supportive are Juggs, guard in any spec, leap and intercede work well with ball carrying and cross gap in Voidstar. Marauders, with predation. PTs with aoe hardstun, and grapple.

 

Yet sorc can pull allies, aoe knockback which only Juggs out of those 3 are the only ones to have the ability to knockback. Best heals and dps off heal. Ally pull, 3 cc escapes...you literally cannot take a node from a sorc, or gank them with multiple stealth. Even their utility is team friendly, aoe knockback root, bubble stun aoe.

 

Operatives can aoe flashbang and that sums up their team utility. Everything else is left to single target and 1 v 1 node strategies. I am not saying their dmg is bad...they just don't offer much in a team fight. Most of what they do is left to their own devices. The only hope you have when an OP shows up on your team is that they can kill the person before they kill you. A sorc shows up and they pull you to safety, or bubbles you and spams dark heal. A jugg guards you, a mara gives you predation ....oh wait an ops heal probe is to OP should delete those...game breaking.

 

I wouldn't have to sound so anti-sorc if people wouldn't stop defending them like the entire spec is useless. Every update sorcs have been bad. Even when they were #1 in arena...they were bad. Unkillable heals...bad. It's all a l2p issue. Honestly if mercs had been like like they were for years all the sorc fanbois would be merc fanbois and would have a bigger crowd saying mercs were fine. People also seem to forget while sorc dps might not always top the charts they always have over a mil heals just from self and off healing in the warzone. "But I have to heal to survive". There you go, an op has to roll to survive...must be tough having to use a defensive ability and not attack at the same time.

 

I don't even see the why so many complain about lightning sorc, they have better burst windows than madness. Madness biggest burst is force leech and instant demolish back to back. That's all they have. Lightning procs secondary dmg. So even when you have an ability show up as a 23k hit, there was an additional 7k dmg that proc'd but guess you need the leaderboards to show 40k hit.

 

I honestly don't have the problems people seem to have with lightning sorc.

 

"BUT 3 MERCS NET ME AND I DIE WHEN FOCUSED"

 

guess what...so does everyone else. You aren't special.

 

"THATS CAUSE NETS OP"

 

No it's cause its a 1 v 3...you should die.

 

"I should have anti focus."

 

"You have barrier"

 

"IT runs out then I die"

 

"You get bastion"

 

"Died"

 

"How long before you died?"

 

"Globaled"

 

"In barrier?"

 

...

 

The day operatives become gods and fotm...I will say the same thing about them. I don't favor classes, but I use the OP vs Sorc scenario just because it dates back the longest. People have always complained about ops being broken gods, that can stunlock and 2 shot you no matter what while rolling. And sorcs this defenseless little dove in light armor and zero defensive capabilities. Heals are the same as using a dcd. They keep you alive.

 

I mean this isn't Skyrim where you want to create a character that is just a god among mortals killing dragons and ruling the world. You are supposed to have limitations. Sorcs don't believe in jack of all trades and a master of none. They want to be a master of all trades. 3 cc escapes, heals, endless force, and high burst and mobility.

Sorc heals are op, I don't think anybody would disagree. I would recommend for you to play a dps sorc at max level pvp since you seem to think the burst is actually not bad. The short of the matter about sorc dps is twofold. Both their sustained and burst dps are flat out inferior to every other advanced class, and they have no focus fire dcd when netted combined with the squishiest base state of any advanced class.

Operatives have the role of harassing off nodes/healers or being the best at guarding, while sorc dps usual role is boosting other team's heal numbers with useless fluff damage.

Sorcs HEALERS may be overpowered, but certainly not healing of DPS sorcs, which is weak and should be buffed back.

Healers in general should be toned down. Give them higher dmg in return, to avoid the boring no-kill IMPASSEE which often happens due to 3 or more healers on a team.

Just for clarification.

can you read? you can clearly see their is suggestions for all three healer specs on his post.

What? No it doesn't. Emergency scan makes healing scan activate instantly. Using rapid scan 3 times in a row in bodyguard spec reduces the heat cost of healing scan to 0. Each rapid scan reduces it by 5 energy to a total of 15 energy which is the cost of healing scan.

ya, i was mixing up my procs, my bad >.>

I'm just curious why he'd have the first one do nothing and proc starting on the second? at that rate, why not just have each one be 33% or something?

playing Madness, I only ever have issues with force management if im in consistent combat forever or ive had to off heal someone quite a lot. It's not really an issue.

Depends how you play, every DPS class I play I try to maximize damage, therefore staying in combat as long as possible, if you're not dying cuz your team and the other team has a healer(s) it's easily possible to run into force management issues because of the sustained damage, not every match is like that but in other classes you have to try *really* hard to run out of energy or force, not so with madness.

I'm just curious why he'd have the first one do nothing and proc starting on the second? at that rate, why not just have each one be 33% or something?

The first cast gives you a buff that affects the 2nd cast which gives you a buff that effects the 3rd cast and also initiates the 20 sec internal CD. So if your cast time was 1.5 seconds, 1st cast is 1.5, next cast is .75 last cast is instant.

Also, just for clarification, the Critical Efficiency buff does not reduce the cost of Healing Scan to 0, but to 5. It's base is 20, so it gets reduced to 15, 10 then 5.

Why is it so hard to have the same DPS for all DPS classes? This should be a no brainer for a computer game.

Yes, they should play and feel differently, but their abilities should have very similar damage per second values across the board, not be off by 15% per second, 30% in 2 seconds, and 105% in 7 seconds. That's just insane.

it's on joe's stream probably but if you're looking for balance info there's not much point, saying that mercs were getting nerfed was really the only thing said afaik

 

sniper changes are on the road map and it's pretty hard to believe that they'd be getting buffs. so some sort of nerf is almost certain it seems to me

I'm holding out hope for an eng nerf, a mobility change for vir, and some flavor of buff for mm.

Why would you assume I don't have all 3 classes, which I do, in fact.

My merc's heals and DCDs are by far stronger than my sage's. My sniper's defensive safeguard's heal for 3% per second + 60% ballistic shield bonus, not 2% every 3 seconds as you incorrectly stated. There are also very significant damage reduction bonuses and evasion, which make snipers' A LOT more durable than a sage. Some snipers have HUGE healing numbers at the end of the match. Just open your eyes. I face-tank mercs with my sniper no problem, but with a sage it's often a run away from execution.

 

Why do you keep arguing with people who main a sorc and are unhappy with class being made absolete for certain content, such as ranked PVP.

So you tell me not to assume thag you don't plah all three classes, and then say "don't argue with people who main a sorc."

Where oh where do I begin.

Maining a class. If you "main" a sorc you are the person who gets on forums and goes "nerf ops, they are OP spamming kinfy knife attacks."

I don't main anything, I play ever class and spec, including my junk heap PT tank. R.I.P. Firestorm.

I don't complain because I fight people. I play the classes and I know what they can and cant do. People are so dramatic. Do you always play without a team to be getting globaled by mercs with net and snipers all using plasma peobe on you? Where are the taunts, gaurds, cc, heals? If your team can't use trinity or peel at all...what would you expect vs an actual team that can mark target and focus you down? I know the feeling of wanting to dismiss your teams healer and summom a companion.

To the other person who said madness will be running out of force in minutes...is that a bad thing? Wish it took mins before my marauder ran out of resources withought taking utilities or using abilities to restore it.

If you are still in combat after mins then there is a deeper issue that doesn't really having anything to do with force management.

Also if you read again I am talking about the skillful utility which heals at the rate I said before. I also aknowledged the ballastic heals. Not saying its bad, but saying its better than sorc off heals? Would you want ballastic shield or dark heal spam as a sniper? We know the answer to that.

Sorcs obsolete for ranked?

You know whats obsolete? Ranked pvp.

Trying to balance a game of 24 specs based on 4 v 4 creates classes with insane DCD and heals...including DPS gaurd.

Arenas are the key source of class inbalance. Mercs got the dcd everyone wanted for arenas in 4.0.

Also I agree that snipers are durable. But unlike face tanking a sorc has different strategy. If you face tank on a sorc as dps...its no wonder people think they needed buffed.

Anyways, goodnight.

Why would you assume I don't have all 3 classes, which I do, in fact.

My merc's heals and DCDs are by far stronger than my sage's. My sniper's defensive safeguard's heal for 3% per second + 60% ballistic shield bonus, not 2% every 3 seconds as you incorrectly stated. There are also very significant damage reduction bonuses and evasion, which make snipers' A LOT more durable than a sage. Some snipers have HUGE healing numbers at the end of the match. Just open your eyes. I face-tank mercs with my sniper no problem, but with a sage it's often a run away from execution.

 

Why do you keep arguing with people who main a sorc and are unhappy with class being made absolete for certain content, such as ranked PVP.

Counteroffensive Safeguards

Passive

When Ballistic Shield is activated you gain a charge of Counteroffensive Safeguards for each enemy inside your Ballistic Shield, up to 4. This effect lasts 20 seconds and each charge increases your damage reduction by 5%. In addition, while inside your Ballistic Shield, you heal for 3% of your maximum health every second and you are immune to being pulled or knocked back.

Stroke of Genius

Passive

Activating Cover Pulse makes the next Snipe or Lethal Shot activate instantly and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 20% for 6 seconds.

Hold Your Ground

Passive

Reduces the cooldowns of Shield Probe and Cover Pulse by 5 seconds, and Escape by 30 seconds. In addition, when you exit cover you gain a Cover Screen that increases your ranged defense by 20% for 6 seconds.

Vital Regulators

Passive

While in cover, you heal for 2% of your total health every 3 seconds.

[utility] Siege Bunker – Reduces all area effect damage taken by 60% while Entrench is active.

Turns Entrench into a great defensive CD. Incredibly useful for many fights.

[utility] Ballistic Dampers: absorbs 30% of the damage dealt by incoming attacks. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. Ballistic Dampers can only be gained once every 6 seconds.

[utility] Deployed Shields – Reduces all damage taken while in cover by 5% and reduces the cooldown of Ballistic Shield by 30 seconds.

The 5% damage reduction in cover is very helpful, as is the 30 second CD reduction on Super Ballistic Shield.

DCDS -

Shield Probe (30 second CD): Summons a probe droid that projects a shield around the Agent, absorbing a moderate amount of incoming damage for 10 seconds.

This is very useful for blocking some incoming damage that you know is coming (like heave on Revan)

Entrench (45 second CD with right utilities): Entrenches you into cover, becoming immune to all controlling effects. Only grants protection while in cover. Lasts 20 seconds.

Entrench is an incredibly useful tool. If you take the right utilities, it can be used to mitigate huge amounts of AoE damage, as well as prevent knockbacks/stuns.

Evasion (1 minute CD): Increases your chance to dodge melee and ranged attacks by 200% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

Evasion can be a very situational defensive. You can completely avoid some attacks, but others it do nothing. Try to learn where it can and can’t be used to effectively mitigate. We also have a passive that reduces the damage of force/tech attacks by 75% with evasion active.

Covered Escape (20 second CD): Roll forward 18 meters, purging movement-impairing effects and landing crouched behind cover. While rolling, your chance to dodge attacks is increased by 100%.

Covered Escape is an amazing defensive. While it can be used offensively due to scatter bombs being attached to it, it should primarily be used to mitigate all of the damage of a single attack or to get out of damage quickly.

Imperial Preparation (3 minute CD): Immediately finishes the active cooldowns on Evasion, Countermeasures, Shield Probe, Cover Pulse, Entrench, and Covered Escape.

Why is it so hard to have the same DPS for all DPS classes? This should be a no brainer for a computer game.

Yes, they should play and feel differently, but their abilities should have very similar damage per second values across the board, not be off by 15% per second, 30% in 2 seconds, and 105% in 7 seconds. That's just insane.

It's because of other abilties and options. If all DPS specs had the same DPS output potentials than the DPS specs that had the best CC kit, the best self heals, stealth, etc. would eclipse the DPS classes that did not have as much else to offer as them.

For example - [And this is a non scientific comparison, it's really just an analogy for demonstrative purposes]

Assassins - large CC kit, some minor self heals, perma stealth, can use guards even in DPS spec, can skank tank.

Marauder - smaller CC kit, no self heals, a 4 second steath ability on a 30 CD, can't guard in any spec.

PT - Good CC kit, minor self heals, no stealth, can gaurd, worst skank tank option in the game.

Merc - large CC kit [not as large as Assassin tho], spamable self heals, passive h2F, reflect sheild which heals when being attacked in addition to reflecting damage back, no steath, no guard, ranged class less effected by mechanics, less prone to taking damage, heavy armor, health boost utility, stealth detection.

Assuming they all did the same DPS, but Assassin, Marauder, and PT can only attack in melee range [4'], and mercs can attack long range [30'], who would you choose?

You make them all the same DPS wise, there's no reason to ever play a PT or a Marauder, the other one's can do the DPS just as well and have more to offer otherwise, further still, baring the need for stealth, why would you choose an Assassin?

DPS choices would be relegated to how much they could offer outside of fighting and how self sustaining.

The DPS with the best self heals wins every time, because he can give just as well as he gets, but can take a lot more of what he gets than the DPS with less healing aptitude.

Furthermore, skank tanks quite possibly become to best DPS in the game heh

This is exactly why Mercs and Snipers have been OP in 5.0, because they could do as much DPS as any other DPS AND had the best DCDs in the game and have self heals.The more self-sustaining the DPSer is, the less DPS output potential he should have. That's where the term 'glass canon' comes from. Very high damage output, but can't take a beating for too long. Mercs and Snipers can do just as much DPS as anyone else, and can take a beating til kingdom come.That's why there needs to be various degrees of DPS out out between different DPS specs, because they offer different abilities and levels of personal survival.

That said, the DPS differences among DPS specs in this meta are FAR to extreme. There is no reason that a Lightning Sorc [rDPS], should do a 1000 less DPS than a Merc [rDPS] as they both ostensibly fill the same role [rDPS]. The DPS differences between the DPS specs can and should be smaller than they are presently, but differences in DPS output must exist if you want to make different classes with different others sorts of abilities.

In essence, if you can self heal more than me, I should be able to do more DPS than you, otherwise you have an innate advantage because you can potentially survive longer than I can. If you only have to kill me once but I have to, in effect kill you twice because of your healing abilities than I don't have, you are just creating a different sort of disparity. So if you want all DPS to all have the same DPS output, all these other aspects of the DPS specs have to equally balanced as well, because those are the sorts of things that class imbalances are made of.

Assuming they all did the same DPS, but Assassin, Marauder, and PT can only attack in melee range [4'], and mercs can attack long range [30'], who would you choose?

It takes a bit of time for a melee class to get into 4m position, and it take away from "damage-per-second" by definition, unless they are using ranged attacks such as saber throw. It is so hard to calculate the time it take to cover 30 meters and to compensate for that? I'm talking about final dps output.

So you tell me not to assume thag you don't plah all three classes, and then say "don't argue with people who main a sorc."

 

Where oh where do I begin.

 

Maining a class. If you "main" a sorc you are the person who gets on forums and goes "nerf ops, they are OP spamming kinfy knife attacks."

 

I don't main anything, I play ever class and spec, including my junk heap PT tank. R.I.P. Firestorm.

 

I don't complain because I fight people. I play the classes and I know what they can and cant do. People are so dramatic. Do you always play without a team to be getting globaled by mercs with net and snipers all using plasma peobe on you? Where are the taunts, gaurds, cc, heals? If your team can't use trinity or peel at all...what would you expect vs an actual team that can mark target and focus you down? I know the feeling of wanting to dismiss your teams healer and summom a companion.

 

To the other person who said madness will be running out of force in minutes...is that a bad thing? Wish it took mins before my marauder ran out of resources withought taking utilities or using abilities to restore it.

 

If you are still in combat after mins then there is a deeper issue that doesn't really having anything to do with force management.

 

Also if you read again I am talking about the skillful utility which heals at the rate I said before. I also aknowledged the ballastic heals. Not saying its bad, but saying its better than sorc off heals? Would you want ballastic shield or dark heal spam as a sniper? We know the answer to that.

 

Sorcs obsolete for ranked?

 

You know whats obsolete? Ranked pvp.

By "main" I mean that's the class I like the most, or rather I used to like it prior to the nerf. I also like the class's animations, but not its past-nerf "chicken flavor." Now I play my merc and sniper a lot more, as the sorc became obsolete for certain content.

Sniper's combined Ballistic Shield defenses and healing + healing and defenses while in cover + evasion are better than sorc's defenses + heals, no contest, in addition to engi sniper's far superior damage. There's absolutely 0 benefit to chose a DPS sorc over a sniper.

There's nothing wrong with sorcs wanting to be viable in a duel. With my pre-4.0 sorc, I used to duel mercs all the time, with results depending on player skill, armor, etc., not class alone as it is now.

Ranked PVP / duels are the true tests of a class in terms of combat viability. There's a lot less clarity in an unranked wz, with objective in the way and 8 people on each team.

Also, the data is indisputable that operatives have the highest DPS of all classes and have to be nerfed.

I urge everyone to stay calm and wait till we actually know something for real.

I mean now everyone is super excited that mercs are getting tuned down without knowing what will happen to the other classes.

I don't think they will touch mercs without messing with the rest of the classes.

By "main" I mean that's the class I like the most, or rather I used to like it prior to the nerf. I also like the class's animations, but not its past-nerf "chicken flavor." Now I play my merc and sniper a lot more, as the sorc became obsolete for certain content.

 

Sniper's combined Ballistic Shield defenses and healing + healing and defenses while in cover + evasion are better than sorc's defenses + heals, no contest, in addition to engi sniper's far superior damage. There's absolutely 0 benefit to chose a DPS sorc over a sniper.

 

There's nothing wrong with sorcs wanting to be viable in a duel. With my pre-4.0 sorc, I used to duel mercs all the time, with results depending on player skill, armor, etc., not class alone as it is now.

 

Ranked PVP / duels are the true tests of a class in terms of combat viability. There's a lot less clarity in an unranked wz, with objective in the way and 8 people on each team.

 

Also, the data is indisputable that operatives have the highest DPS of all classes and have to be nerfed.

Honestly I get bored of FOTM classes more often and I will want to play something else instead. I still play merc and sniper as I get bored on the other ones too. I think when it comes to class animations marauders probably have the funnest play style. I really enjoyed PT tank for awhile, but you are right about being past flavor...that spec is unbearable for me right now.

I agree snipers defenses are better, but I was just saying healing. Sorcs dps off heals are really good. I will kite snipers a lot and heal myself to full while fighting them. I would never face tank a sniper as a sorc. The problem with comparing classes in a warzone is there are so many factors that come into play. You can't just use raw data to determine which class is best. The ability to off heal will save a lot of players as its really hard to kill someone when a sorc is spamming dark heal on someone. I am not talking about becoming a reduced healer by going around only dark healing but you can turn the tide as I've done so often as a sorc dps. I personally think it should be the healers job to heal. When you have 3-4 sorc in a warzone all off healing it becomes a joke...especially if one is a healer as they will off heal the healer when its in a pinch. Though anyone class stacking is really annoying to begin with.

You know I was fine with everything you said until you said "Also, the data is indisputable that operatives have the highest DPS of all classes and have to be nerfed."

You are trolling right? Why do people think training dummy data is legit in a warzone? A melee ranged character spamming on an immovable target...of course their numbers will be high. Turn around and go into a warzone. Ranged will be first to initiate combat because they have that advantage. They can easily stay out of conflict because of this as well. Operatives have to fight in the fray, and the only way to stay alive (Concealment) is to roll around. Each time they use both rolls, that is two global cooldowns that they did zero dmg. A marauder can pop undying rage...and continue to dps...an op rolls...and does no dps. Their cooldowns are almost nonexistant as shield probe will pop in half a hit, and while evasion with utility is good...thats all they got besides rolling. They are pretty much 99% single target dmg, as their aoe is nothing amazing, frags okai just to throw at ranged targets. They are locked out easily by roots. Can't do anything. Root a sorc/merc...lol sniper and they still attack 30-35m. Operatives also have to deal with silly mechanics like backstab...and anyone who has to deal with server lag, and lag of some of the maps in warzones...sometimes it can actually be annoying. I have had times where I can't even veiled strike a target in front of me even though I have the option to do so because of warzones like Oddesson or Quesh. I'd check my internet and it's never the issue or my computer. Yet when I deal with that on my merc or sorc I can still get abilities off because I don't have to deal with los issues as much and slight lag of warzone. Even if connection and server were perfect...people actually try to stay away from ops. Roots, knockbacks, stuns and while ops can do the same the only difference is people will dps and put distance between them and op putting an even longer duration before ops can actually DPS again.

I have never once gone into a warzone in my entire life and thought operatives were OP or was afraid to face them. I mean I know they were OP in 1.0 but I played sniper and just perma rooted them so I never thought they were hard when they tried to gank me, in fact they were 10x easier to control back then.

Never understood by people hate operatives...like the only argument is "They are good at 1 v 1" Guess what? Arena and Regs are not 1 v 1 ...all operatives can be killed. Just communicate as a team. There is literally no way an op can kill you fast enough before help arrives unless help doesn't.

"But operatives come in packs and gank me and I die so fast."

Again, everyone dies under focus. If 3 ops gank you...you SHOULD die...why should you live?

"But they roll and my heatseeker does no dmg."

Then don't heatseeker when they roll. It has a 10 second cooldown, use your high burst after they use their rolls.

"Still, they won't die cause of roll."

While they roll, put distance between them if you are ranged. Use a self heal, they can't do anything while they are rolling. Time a root right after roll finishes.

Operatives one advantage in most cases is 1 v 1...but in reality no one should ever be able to fully 1 v 1 in a warzone unless there is a massive skill inbalance. It's not 1 v 1 if the person at the node already fought someone and has 0 dcds. Of course you could gank them before help arrives. Everyone dies when t hey have no dcd.

Ops don't have any friendly team utility. Can training dummy testing factor in off healing? Ally pull, enemy pull, intercede, predation, chilling scream to slow groups down, objective play? Stealth suffer the most in oddesson because they cannot use stealth with a buff on...its really annoying. I'd even be fine with it showing it above my head in stealth...but being unable to open up for more dmg, Or escape and sap someone or anything is just dumb.

People who rely on training dummy data are called Devs...that isn't testing anything. If you think training dummy data actual factors into real pvp, teamwork, and non dps utilties, you are delusional. While having high dmg is nice it only works if the target is afk and no one is focusing you.

Nerfing/buffing a class will not solve the problems in PvP right now. Haven't you learned anything from previous patches? I mean a majority of players who really can't play this game are almost always resorting to "let's nerf this, let's buff that" --- it's getting old really. And that's emotional feedback to devs. Put things through the train of logic first.

If you wanna improve in PvP, for your part, you need to "learn" to gear up according to your class specs, L2P your class, and duel a lot to improve your skills.

Mercs and Snipers look OP only due to class stacking. That's not a problem with the class, but with the queuing system. That's for Bioware to fix. Unless some maintenance is done in that system, you will continue to see legions of mercs/mandos snipers/slingers spamming their electro nets and plasma probes.

And no, sorcs/sage healers are not OP, nor any other healing class. Healers are supposed to last longer, along with tanks. If you wanna stop them, then learn to nuke them and interrupt them.

It all comes down to individual skill, situational awareness, and discipline. If you don't have these, that's not Bioware's fault.

Nerfing/buffing a class will not solve the problems in PvP right now. Haven't you learned anything from previous patches? I mean a majority of players who really can't play this game are almost always resorting to "let's nerf this, let's buff that" --- it's getting old really. And that's emotional feedback to devs. Put things through the train of logic first.

 

If you wanna improve in PvP, for your part, you need to "learn" to gear up according to your class specs, L2P your class, and duel a lot to improve your skills.

 

Mercs and Snipers look OP only due to class stacking. That's not a problem with the class, but with the queuing system. That's for Bioware to fix. Unless some maintenance is done in that system, you will continue to see legions of mercs/mandos snipers/slingers spamming their electro nets and plasma probes.

 

And no, sorcs/sage healers are not OP, nor any other healing class. Healers are supposed to last longer, along with tanks. If you wanna stop them, then learn to nuke them and interrupt them.

 

It all comes down to individual skill, situational awareness, and discipline. If you don't have these, that's not Bioware's fault.

B.S. Stop pretending that BioWare got quing wrong, but somehow they got the class balance perfect and ppl just need to L2P. You're contradicting yourself. Listen to all the experienced players who played all or most of the classes and notice the growing class imbalance. It is now worse than it used to be pre-4.0.

And now that the devs announced class re-balance changes. What is your position? Were they wrong then or wrong now?

Multiple healers result in stale-mates, seriously ruining PVP. Nerf their healing and give them a bit more damage in return.

B.S. Stop pretending that BioWare got quing wrong, but somehow they got the class balance perfect and ppl just need to L2P. You're contradicting yourself. Listen to all the experienced players who played all or most of the classes and notice the growing class imbalance. It is now worse than it used to be pre-4.0.

 

And now that the devs announced class re-balance changes. What is your position? Were they wrong then or wrong now?

By pointing out a historical problem that continuously causes at least 1 class to be a disenfranchised party in the following pvp patch? How is that B.S.? You are not even hearing yourself when you say "It is now worse than it used to be pre 4.0"? Ask yourself "why is it worse than before?" The answer is because nerf-buff hammer is the only trick Bioware ever used. It is time for a different trick, don't you agree?

You are approaching the issue emotionally, like majority of players who do. The only time I see a merc or sniper or sage healer being problematic is when there are 2-3 of them in the same area doing the same thing. Deathmatches are a good indicator of this - you can see 4 tanks in the opposite team, just as you are likely to see 4 healers. How is that not a problem of queuing system?

My position is: I do not favor another nerf-buff class strategy. That's an old trick. You'd be naive if you think that it will make everything perfect and balanced. Wait for a few months and you will here players complaining "why is the Marauder so OP? and such and such. History will repeat itself.

Making some adjustments in the queuing system might do some remedy. It will disallow 4 healers to be on the same team, or 4 mercs, or 4 juggernauts, and so on.

I do not deny class imbalance, but it is impossible to make any class to be balanced to one another. Each class has unique strengths and skills. On that note, you are underestimating individual skill. Some players are good and shine despite all odds. I know someone in my server that burns tanks with a lightning sorcerer, despite everyone was saying it is not viable. Apparently it is, as I found out, if you are using the right utilities and rotations and have good timing and situational awareness.

I do not deny class imbalance, but it is impossible to make any class to be balanced to one another. Each class has unique strengths and skills.

There are DPS charts all over the net, demonstrating differences as much as 15%/second. It's not rocket science to fix it.

Yes, some players can do well with disadvantaged classes. I personally killed Assassin tanks with my TK sage. But those players are even more effective with other, more Dev-favored classes. Bring them all in line. It's not rocket science.

There are DPS charts all over the net, demonstrating differences as much as 15%/second. It's not rocket science to fix it.

 

Yes, some players can do well with disadvantaged classes. I personally killed Assassin tanks with my TK sage. But those players are even more effective with other, more Dev-favored classes. Bring them all in line. It's not rocket science.

Class imbalance is ultimately an "experience." Release all the charts in the world, all the mathematical accuracy, it won't change it. You will continue to see some players always saying X class is OP and Y class is UP (underpowered).

Because it is an experience, it is easy to fall into the self-deception trap, and jump into the bandwagon of OP/UP train. You are in the dominant discourse, neglecting the problem associated with the queuing system. Once you begin to think differently from the crowd, it might occur to you that the problem has "other" causes as well and that nerf/buff hammer won't fix them.

The last thing we need is longer quing times. Lots of servers are already almost dead. People are quing as mercs, snipers, operatives, and sorc healers because they want to win. It's that simple.

It makes a lot more sense to make all classes self-sufficient, and effective as a stand-alone. For example, mercs are a self-sufficient class with strong damage, healing and defenses, which does well in almost any team.

The last thing we need is longer quing times. Lots of servers are already almost dead.

 

It makes a lot more sense to make all classes self-sufficient, and effective as a stand-alone. For example, mercs are a self-sufficient class with strong damage, healing and defenses, which does well in almost any team.

No, nobody wants that. Then again, I never recommend fixing queuing system as "the" solution, but one of the alternative solutions. I am sure devs don't have all the answers, neither do we,; but it is very clear to me that another nerf/buff hammer will not make problems go away.