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Rule of Two

Zannis's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 01:35 PM | #11
The rule of two doesn't make sense in the regard that as a Sith, I would simply never take on an apprentice. I would go about my business on my own. The less energy I have to expend looking over my shoulder, the more I could focus on the tasks at hand.

Htiffirg's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 02:21 PM | #12
Not all Sith will follow the Rule of two. Look up the Lost Tribe and read the Fate of the Jedi series.

Landuson's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 03:20 PM | #13
I think, if anything, the Rule of Two was effective in the sense that it allowed the Sith to sew decent into the ranks of the Jedi and the republic more efficiently.

I say this because in the timezone the TOR is set in, there are plentiful Sith. As Sith seem to spawn like maggots, the Jedi had a clear enemy and ample opportunities to strike deadly blows against the foundations of the Sith occult. However, with the introducution of the 'Rule of Two', deceit - paranoia - and general chaos could be spread within the shadows.

A couple of Sith are harder to spot in a Galaxy, especially when their methods are to subjugate and to sew the seeds of chaos.

A band of roving Sith, who slash first think later, is a problem - all be it tangibly paradox - with a clear solution.
'We are pushing a, late, March 2012 release'
*1.5 million light sabers burst to life*


ScheurK's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 05:30 PM | #14
The whole idea of the rule was to stop the self-destructive nature of the dark side, which it did perfectly. And also Bane wanted to focus all power of the dark side on one being, ie the master, and make sure that with every generation the sith would become stronger, because the apprentice was expected to get all of the master's knowledge and expand on all subjects of it. His rule failed because Anakin never was truly loyal to the Sith.

Bgiffo's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 06:25 PM | #15
Imo, Revan's version of the rule of two made a lot more sense. Two sith lords, one master one aprentice, and lots of cronies.

Ryjah's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 06:48 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Zannis View Post
The rule of two doesn't make sense in the regard that as a Sith, I would simply never take on an apprentice. I would go about my business on my own. The less energy I have to expend looking over my shoulder, the more I could focus on the tasks at hand.
In the short run though, you have a reliable lieutenant to do your dirty work for you. That happens to be a Sith. You can just as easily manipulate / dispose of your apprentice, arguably moreso than they can of you. Example: Sidious and Dooku.

seanstatus's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 06:50 PM | #17
Never thought I would find a reason to post on the forums, but this is something I feel passionately about.

first off, a few above are mostly correct, most WROOOOONG

Bane founded the rule of two with two main goals in mind, the preservation of the sith order and the guaranteed increase of power in the master generation after generation. for example in this game, you can even see in the story, students weaker in the dark side would band together to overthrow the more powerful sith in their own self interest, subsequently weakening the order. since deception and betrayal are key elements in sith tactics this is bound to happen with many sith. Therefor there can only be two, "one to embody the power, and one to crave it" to ensure that when the master is overthrown by his or her apprentice IE darth Zannah. the new master is more powerful than the last. It then falls on the master to ensure that the apprentice understands the importance of this aspect of the rule. failure to do so would result in a flaw in the rule. Therefor as common in sith teachings failure is not an option!!! (which isnt asking a lot if you are the TRUE MFing Dark lord)

As for multiple apprentices, this is also explained in the Bane novels. Bane and Zannah both found new apprentices but knew that they must fight alone to decide who would be the true Dark lord of the sith to take on the new apprentice. and spoiler spoiler, even their new apprentice Darth Cognus vowed to follow whoever won the one on one battle and not assist in any way.

So yeah you can nit pick flaws about sith betraying the rule, but it is meant as much more of a complex system to the order than just simply one master one apprentice. It requires the master to be ultra aware of his apprentice and responsible for ensuring that they will be a suitable Dark lord someday. If they should suspect their apprentice of straying from the rule, They should probably kill that SOB. find a new apprentice that wont suck it up like a newb.

AAAAANyway, if you made it through that nerd wall, you can see I pretty much think the rule of two is the way to go, but that wouldnt be a fun mmo so ill be running along side all you other neckbearded nerds for the sake of epicsauce jedi slaying :]


Zantul's Avatar

12.13.2011 , 07:02 PM | #18
Im going to say this one time and one time only you are going to read something I will never mention again.

The Dark Side is like venom the more you spread it the more you dilute it. I did not make up this phrase either. It came from a book of dark secrets penned by Darth Sidious.

There can only be ONE.
It is better to be feared than loved. Love is like a chain of obligation, and because man is sadly wicked it is broken at every opportunity to serve self interest. However fear is maintained by the dread of punishment which never abandons you.
Darth Venger Prophecy of the 5

foolsama's Avatar

12.14.2011 , 12:11 PM | #19
There are a ton of Sith force users, and they recruit more all the time; the Sith are living embodiments of a twisted Peter's Principle: All Sith want to be the Emporer/Dark Lord. All Sith will rise to their level of incompletence, and then get killed. Once you get to the very top, you have #1, with his chosen successor - who he expects will succeed him violently. If he does not, he is not worthy.

So, not being familiar with Darth Bane's story, from what I gather of the above he had the right idea for keeping the strength of the organization within the limits of the Sith code. Only, if they don't keep that recruitment going full speed, they'll kill themselves off eventually, so if it came down to only two, the master and the apprentice - that apprentice *has* to recruit his own, in order to keep the Sith going once he kills the Master. I would call it an unspoken, 'gentlemen's' agreement. Because also as mentioned, there's nothing stopping the current Master from taking on the current Apprentice's pupil for his own, and killing the Apprentice! It creates a good competition, so the best candidate wins.

Zerrik's Avatar

12.14.2011 , 01:12 PM | #20
There are a lot of good arguments for and against the rule of two. The problem is the arguments against the rule of two are all things Bane addresses as he creates it. He knew there would be other apprentices brought into the Sith but ultimately it would come down to two in the end always.

It was the only way, like above posters have said, that the Sith would grow stronger and their strength would not be diluted. I think once Darth Sidious became Emperor is when the rule of two started becoming corrupted. The Separatist movement and the Clone Wars to the Jedi Purge spanned a total of 14 years at least. During that time Darth Sidious has 3 apprentices, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and finally Darth Vader.

Now one can argue Sidious was following the rule of two to the dot. He saw each of his apprentices were unworthy of the title Dark Lord of the Sith and was grooming another until his current apprentice ultimately failed. Then he just replaced them like he did with Anakin and Dooku.

Now it is during his reign he becomes corrupt. He no longer finds the need for a suitable apprentice to replace him. He just wants one to be his right hand, his tool. He starts cloning himself and is set on using the dark ritual of "Essence Transfer" to keep himself immortal. No he doesn't want Luke to join the Dark side to eventually kill him and take over his Empire. He wants Luke as a tool that he can discard when he gets too powerful. Vader on the other hand does not adhere to the rule of two at all. He wants to use Luke in taking power from the Emperor since he can not do it himself.

So what starts out as a "perfect" rule gets corrupted and twisted in the end like all things do under the influence of the Darkside.