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Darth Marr

jonatanref's Avatar


jonatanref
05.09.2017 , 06:05 AM | #1
I am under the impression that only Jedi or Light side users can achieve a force ghost, so how come Darth Marr shows up as a force ghost in a small cutscene during KOTET

J_Craver's Avatar


J_Craver
05.09.2017 , 07:00 AM | #2
Well, in addition to the five Sith Force ghosts the Inquisitor meets during their storyline, at the time this game was released it was also canonical that Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, and Emperor Palpatine became spirits upon their deaths.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
05.09.2017 , 07:47 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by J_Craver View Post
Well, in addition to the five Sith Force ghosts the Inquisitor meets during their storyline, at the time this game was released it was also canonical that Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, and Emperor Palpatine became spirits upon their deaths.
assuming they not only learned to go beyond their physical forms and kept their personality intact, but still have an interest in the realms of the physical realm.

Qui-Gon Jin learned to keep his personality in the force but not his physical apperance when he guided Yoda, however Yoda, Obiwan and Anakin learned to keep their physical form and personality intact after death. In the same way Darth Marr learned this as well. Not every jedi and Sith know how to do this.

However those that learn this, for the Sith their spirits are usually bound to an object like an anchor that wouldn't let them leave the physical realm, other than dark arts. Sith that are like this wouldn't find any rest in the force. However Jedi learn it differently and are freed from the limitations of the physical realm. Darth Marr may have left the same way a Jedi did, became one in the force without something to hold him there.

Those force spirits can tap into the link between the living individual and the force to show themselves as a spirit.

cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
05.09.2017 , 09:38 AM | #4
After talking to Marr, it's possible he became lightside. Darth Vader did.
"Sarcasm is strong in this one"

Celise's Avatar


Celise
05.09.2017 , 11:58 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by cool-dude View Post
After talking to Marr, it's possible he became lightside. Darth Vader did.
very doubtful as he died a sith, a being of darkness. but he was no fool as he was willing to listen to another view point as long as it went somewhere productive and it aligned with his goals. He stuck around because he felt guilty and abandoning his empire and not realising. in a way it's a form of redemption but only to the point of protecting the empire he loves. he certainly has no love for the republic and i suspect he tolerates Satele up to a point in those years on odessen before the outlanders arrival.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
05.09.2017 , 01:37 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by jonatanref View Post
I am under the impression that only Jedi or Light side users can achieve a force ghost, so how come Darth Marr shows up as a force ghost in a small cutscene during KOTET
I believe that was a retcon for the Clone Wars cartoon that came out after Swtor. There was no way for the game to account for a lack of DS Force Ghosts without completely invaliding its own story.

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
05.09.2017 , 04:02 PM | #7
That's only for canon material, as far as legends (which SWTOR is part of) is concerned dark side users can become force ghosts, albeit they can go mad unlike light side ones.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

ThePsyEagle's Avatar


ThePsyEagle
05.09.2017 , 05:29 PM | #8
Didn't Yoda once spoke to the force ghost of bane in clone wars?

dcaleb's Avatar


dcaleb
05.09.2017 , 08:43 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by ThePsyEagle View Post
Didn't Yoda once spoke to the force ghost of bane in clone wars?
IIRC, Yoda said it wasn't really Bane but instead something else (I forget what) assuming his appearance to mess with him.

But yeah, by the time force ghosts were stupidly* retconned to light side only The Old Republic was already full of dark side ghosts and it would be silly to start pretending that never happened.


*Seriously, which seems more likely to spit in the face of the will of the force and stay separate after death instead of being one? People that have lived their lives totally subservient to its will or people that have spent their lives controlling it to their own end? The ultimate jedi power that Sith can never ever achieve being the ability to tell the force to go **** itself really just makes no philosophical sense.

Edit: Here we go

https://youtu.be/DoOwyGyVsSA?t=121

It was some sort of illusion someone else was creating.