First let me start off by saying I'm not posting simply to be negative. I know the patch has only been out for around 13 hours as of this post but I have to air out these concerns since it seems like no one else has.

Iokath WPvP is quite underwhelming. I had to accept a story mission just to get on Iokath, choose a faction, and once I was on the planet I only ran into 1 enemy Republic player while skipping through the story. After that it took me about an hour to find a whole group of enemy Pubs. I decided to contact the few people on my Friend's List to invite me to their group, who were in the 1st of only 2 PvP instances and it took them just about as long to find the enemy faction and create WPvP. We ended up just farming them at their base until we got tired of them aggroing all the PvE mobs, and left.

The mobs... this planet is quite large but unfortunately this planet reminds me so much of Makeb. Mobs, mobs, and more mobs. You can't even walk 5 steps without aggroing a mob and it's annoying having to deal with these cluttered PvE mobs and the other faction just ends up running away to aggro as many mobs as possible.

Additionally, the rubber banding and ability delay still exist when more than 16 players and lots of mobs are on the screen. One of the healers in my WPvP Ops group was complaining about it when the Pubs started aggroing as many mobs as possible.

Lastly, the worst thing I believe is PvP/PvE instances. On Harb there were only about 2 or 3 PvP instances, in which only the first one was active with some WPvP, while the rest (about 10+) were PvE instances in which PvP does not and cannot take place. Frankly I believe as long as this instancing exists, the vast majority will go out of their way to avoid being "ganked".

Those are my thoughts. Feel free to share your experiences (or no experiences) of WPvP on Iokath.

Tl;dr – Planet is large, but WPvP is awkward and difficult to find; almost like Makeb, mobs every few meters that cannot be avoided; rubber banding and ability delay still exists; PvE instancing heavily discourages WPvP.

We ended up just farming them at their base until we got tired of them aggroing all the PvE mobs, and left...and the other faction just ends up running away to aggro as many mobs as possible.

This right here is the problem. People want to "farm" the other side. This is not about engaging in challenging OWPvP for fun; this is about ganking other players. If the other players actually try to even the playing field by using the OW features like PvE NPCs, then it is not "fun" anymore, so they leave. This is a prime example of how calls for OWPvP and eliminating PvP/PvE instances in the name of fun are bogus; they're nothing but pleas to make it easy to gank other players. Multiply the attitude confessed to by the above line several times and you can see why PvP instances would be full of people looking to farm others and very low on people who're looking to be farmed. Since the farmers are not interested in actual competitive PvP, they all then leave the PvP instances, leaving them empty. That happened with other PvP areas and instances and was predicted to happen with Iokath.

Lastly, the worst thing I believe is PvP/PvE instances. On Harb there were only about 2 or 3 PvP instances, in which only the first one was active with some WPvP, while the rest (about 10+) were PvE instances in which PvP does not and cannot take place.

You said it. There are only a few PvP instances because there are only a few players interested in OWPvP. By your own statement, even the few existing instances are not all active. That's exactly the case for reducing PvP instances even further to consolidate the PvP-minded players into fewer instances so they can PvP against each other.

Frankly I believe as long as this instancing exists, the vast majority will go out of their way to avoid being "ganked".

Sure. That's how it should be. Those who want to avoid being farmed will play in PvE instances, those who want to be ganked or do the ganking or both play in PvP instances. Everybody gets to do what they want, nobody gets forced to suffer what they don't want.

PvE instancing heavily discourages WPvP.

No, that's not it. WPvP is unattractive to the vast majority of players who want to do their missions and have fun without being interrupted randomly or prevented from completing their objectives. For the few who are interested in genuine OWPvP, the farming, stealth ambushing and ganking do the discouraging.

The OW PvP on Iokath is virtually identical all other Reputation-based planets (Oricon, CZ-198, etc). I'm not sure why they advertised it as something new. In the past, they could have given us a daily mission with WZ com rewards. Perhaps there could be an Unassembled Component reward? Secondly, a PvP achievement title would be a great incentive.

These are things that can still be added. So I will cross my fingers for a future patch.

The OW PvP on Iokath is virtually identical all other Reputation-based planets (Oricon, CZ-198, etc). I'm not sure why they advertised it as something new. In the past, they could have given us a daily mission with WZ com rewards. Perhaps there could be an Unassembled Component reward? Secondly, a PvP achievement title would be a great incentive.

 

These are things that can still be added. So I will cross my fingers for a future patch.

Ya it like every other planet 2 people farming mats with stealth classes and a bunch of npcs ghost towns

The thing about open world PvP is that it shouldn't need to be incentivized. It should just happen organically. Like RP. That's the one thing I never really understood about people that are always wanting more developer support for owpvp or RP. These activities are entirely up to the community.

If you want rewards for PvP then you do warzones or arenas or whatever. Open world PvP should just happen. For no reason other then hating the other faction. Not coincidentally, that's why RP-PvP servers in almost every MMO have the most active open world PvP.

Also, I remember WoW tried to incentivize world PvP starting in TBC when they added a bunch of outdoor objectives in every zone with rewards, loot, etc. as a way to respond to players constantly wanting Blizzard to support world PvP.

Hardly anyone participated. Everyone was either in battlegrounds or arenas. Guarantee the same exact thing would happen here. World PvP is and always will be up to us, the players.

The thing about open world PvP is that it shouldn't need to be incentivized. It should just happen organically. Like RP. That's the one thing I never really understood about people that are always wanting more developer support for owpvp or RP. These activities are entirely up to the community.

 

If you want rewards for PvP then you do warzones or arenas or whatever. Open world PvP should just happen. For no reason other then hating the other faction. Not coincidentally, that's why RP-PvP servers in almost every MMO have the most active open world PvP.

 

Also, I remember WoW tried to incentivize world PvP starting in TBC when they added a bunch of outdoor objectives in every zone with rewards, loot, etc. as a way to respond to players constantly wanting Blizzard to support world PvP.

 

Hardly anyone participated. Everyone was either in battlegrounds or arenas. Guarantee the same exact thing would happen here. World PvP is and always will be up to us, the players.

I agree with Lium.

AND.....

In the classic sense, there is NO open world PvP in SWTOR anymore, because PvP is now by consent and specific instancing choices by players. You have to be really asleep at the switch to end up in OWPvP unless you want to now days. The days of forced OWPvP are over in SWTOR.

All these complaints from PvPers about 5.2 should be taken up with fellow OWPvPers... not the general player base, and not the studio.

The thing about open world PvP is that it shouldn't need to be incentivized. It should just happen organically. Like RP. That's the one thing I never really understood about people that are always wanting more developer support for owpvp or RP. These activities are entirely up to the community.

 

If you want rewards for PvP then you do warzones or arenas or whatever. Open world PvP should just happen. For no reason other then hating the other faction. Not coincidentally, that's why RP-PvP servers in almost every MMO have the most active open world PvP.

With the current system, it feels "de-centivizing." I can't really explain or put my finger on exactly what it is that makes me feel that way about Iokath. Is it the map? Too many ramps elevators etc? Is it because I want to grind reputation, story, currency on day 1?

For me, it's too early to tell. Perhaps later I can better examine my feelings on the Iokath experience to put it into words.

I agree with Lium.

 

AND.....

 

In the classic sense, there is NO open world PvP in SWTOR anymore, because PvP is now by consent and specific instancing choices by players. You have to be really asleep at the switch to end up in OWPvP unless you want to now days. The days of forced OWPvP are over in SWTOR.

 

All these complaints from PvPers about 5.2 should be taken up with fellow OWPvPers... not the general player base, and not the studio.

Adding no incentive to a PvP zone is fine if there is no incentive to play anyone style over another. If all gear was crafted and other activities rewarded only credits and vendors sold all other items (mounts, Skins, Crystals, etc..) for only credits your argument would hold more weight.

It's not that OWPVP has no incentive exactly but more like you are literally penalized for spending your game time on OWPVP because all other activities do provide incentive rewards for participating.

Not to mention there is no rule saying OWPVP is supposed to be a purely enjoyment based motivation activity... that's just odd.

Just remove all rewards and gear from the game and then play your preferred style and take a look at that statement again...

Adding no incentive to a PvP zone is fine if there is no incentive to play anyone style over another. If all gear was crafted and other activities rewarded only credits and vendors sold all other items (mounts, Skins, Crystals, etc..) for only credits your argument would hold more weight.

 

It's not that OWPVP has no incentive exactly but more like you are literally penalized for spending your game time on OWPVP because all other activities do provide incentive rewards for participating.

 

Not to mention there is no rule saying OWPVP is supposed to be a purely enjoyment based motivation activity... that's just odd.

 

Just remove all rewards and gear from the game and then play your preferred style and take a look at that statement again...

If this game was like WAR or any other PvP-focused game you'd totally have a point. But in a story-based PvE game, PvP is more like a minigame that is rewarded in instances. World PvP is left up to the players.

It's not that OWPVP has no incentive exactly but more like you are literally penalized for spending your game time on OWPVP because all other activities do provide incentive rewards for participating.

Yep, there it is. Well said.

Your post is kind of contradicting itself because it misses a major point: SWTOR was never a PvP game to begin with. All those other activities you mention that players are incentivized to participate in is the actual point of the game. It's PvE.

 

If this game was like WAR or any other PvP-focused game you'd totally have a point. But in a story-based PvE game, PvP is more like a minigame that is rewarded in instances. World PvP is left up to the players.

If a game offers multiple forms of PvE and PvP it is 100% neither... The last planet of the game had an entire portion devoted to PvP in the start. It's not that SWToR is a PvE game it's that the developers have failed to implement PvP in almost every aspect well and as a result the PvP community has dwindled considerably...

The story Pillar which is the true unique center of this game also included PvP and led you up to PvP but did not force it, as it should be. Heck one could say by the very nature of the IP SWToR is a PvP'centric game...

In summary I do not agree with your response at all but cheers regardless.

I agree.

We need more Iokath Shards dropping from dead players

The thing about open world PvP is that it shouldn't need to be incentivized. It should just happen organically.

If there was an interesting reason to participate in OW PVP I *might* participate in it.

I'm not sure what it would take.

Maybe some new mounts that will ONLY be offered, never to be reskinned anywhere else.

Maybe new color crystals.

A pvp armor skin 100% unique to the instance.

Things I don't think they'd ever do.

Open world PvP is a type of game, not something you tack onto an instanced game.

Obviously if everything you need can be gotten in the safety of the instances, either PvE or WZ, why go OW PvP?

OW PvP works when there are no other choices, when everything including the economy is in the one sandbox.

The reward for survival is desh

Not everyone likes pvp so these instances are perfect for people who have no desire at all to do pvp and to be ganked. They just want to play their game their way, just like you want to play your way.

As far as reward yes there should specific rewards for the pvp area, that much I will agree to.

Yet all PvE is rewarded...why the double standards? Players love "stuff". MMOs are all about "stuff"...collecting "stuff", selling "stuff", upgrading "stuff", showing off "stuff", hoarding "stuff". "Stuff" is used as incentive in MMOs. PvPers are not RPers...to compare them to RPers is silly.

There is a big difference between doing quests and killing mobs than killing other players. If people can't see that - or refuse to see it (which is far more likely)- then I don't know what to say.

Open world PvP is a type of game, not something you tack onto an instanced game.

 

Obviously if everything you need can be gotten in the safety of the instances, either PvE or WZ, why go OW PvP?

 

OW PvP works when there are no other choices, when everything including the economy is in the one sandbox.

 

The reward for survival is desh

Maybe they should repurpose one of the old dead PvP servers and put a dread-rule-set on it (think EVE Online engagement rules between players). Let people who like open and uncontrolled PvP have at it. There would be high security areas (where local troops make a sqush spot out of anyone who opens fire, yet lets said party suicide to get to someone else) as well as low security true free for all.. you are on your own mechanics.

Thing is though... it takes a certain kind of PvP player to take on a dread rule set. Most PvPers these days seem to want their PvP sanitized and on their terms, and of course they want cookies for their effort just like the PvEers. Problem is.. different players have different "terms" for PvP on their part.

This right here is the problem. People want to "farm" the other side. This is not about engaging in challenging OWPvP for fun; this is about ganking other players.

I spent roughly seven years playing a korean grinder with open world pvp. What would happen is that you'd see a max level character running around the starter zone...killing every player in sight.

Players have learned that open world pvp = griefer playground. So, they avoid it.

I'd first like to address a major point of no incentives for WPvP or it being de-centivized. Personally it doesn't matter to me. I "ganked" a lot of players at the Ilum heroic and Section X base back when those daily areas were in its prime. I got it to start organically and I found enjoyment in pwning other players and then seeing them encouraging a bunch of their allies to come hunt me down while I pull more mobs. I did it purely for the enjoyment, but that doesn't mean any rewards aren't welcome.

In the classic sense, there is NO open world PvP in SWTOR anymore, because PvP is now by consent and specific instancing choices by players. You have to be really asleep at the switch to end up in OWPvP unless you want to now days. The days of forced OWPvP are over in SWTOR.

And that is the fault of the devs. Making PvP/PvE instances effectively killing any other little reason for PvP servers to exist. People just move on to the 1 or 2 active PvE servers left where instances for both PvP and PvE are popping.

All these complaints from PvPers about 5.2 should be taken up with fellow OWPvPers... not the general player base, and not the studio.

No, they shouldn't. The complaints toward the devs are being targeted appropriately. It's their fault for the PvP/PvE instances for an alternative to x-server.

If a game offers multiple forms of PvE and PvP it is 100% neither... The last planet of the game had an entire portion devoted to PvP in the start. It's not that SWToR is a PvE game it's that the developers have failed to implement PvP in almost every aspect well and as a result the PvP community has dwindled considerably...

 

The story Pillar which is the true unique center of this game also included PvP and led you up to PvP but did not force it, as it should be. Heck one could say by the very nature of the IP SWToR is a PvP'centric game...

 

In summary I do not agree with your response at all but cheers regardless.

/Agree

Just my two cents in this. I agree Open world PvP is not a highly​ needed thing. It's a gank / pwn tool nothing more. Unless it's like EVE online where PVP is the basis of the game and highly encouraged most MMOs shouldn't push it.

I played WoW for years and never played on a PvP server because as others stated I don't want to be distributed​ while playing and completing PvE objectives.

Personally they should just remove the PvE / PvP instances for the servers. Go back to how it was where if you are on a PvE server you get flagged only if you go into enemy territory just like how it was before or if on a PvP server you are always flagged just like before.

Or maybe merge servers down to two per region

Two West

Two East

Two EU - English

Two EU - German

Two EU - French

Have one be a PvE server and the other is a PvP server. That way those that want open World PvP have a server for that and those that one have a server.

They could also give everyone a free transfer for their characters to their respective server or when they create those severs players can pick which one they are placed in for all their characters.

Maybe instead as well have separate instances for RP and Non RP as well and the General chats between them are separate and can't communicate between.

May not be ideal but just some thoughts.

Just my two cents in this. I agree Open world PvP is not a highly​ needed thing. It's a gank / pwn tool nothing more. Unless it's like EVE online where PVP is the basis of the game and highly encouraged most MMOs shouldn't push it.

 

I played WoW for years and never played on a PvP server because as others stated I don't want to be distributed​ while playing and completing PvE objectives.

 

Personally they should just remove the PvE / PvP instances for the servers. Go back to how it was where if you are on a PvE server you get flagged only if you go into enemy territory just like how it was before or if on a PvP server you are always flagged just like before.

 

Or maybe merge servers down to two per region

 

Two West

Two East

Two EU - English

Two EU - German

Two EU - French

 

Have one be a PvE server and the other is a PvP server. That way those that want open World PvP have a server for that and those that one have a server.

 

They could also give everyone a free transfer for their characters to their respective server or when they create those severs players can pick which one they are placed in for all their characters.

 

Maybe instead as well have separate instances for RP and Non RP as well and the General chats between them are separate and can't communicate between.

 

May not be ideal but just some thoughts.

the way they have it now is fine. If you want to pvp, you do to a pvp instance. If not. you stay in a pve instance. everyone in the pvp instance knows that they are there, no excuses. This way pvpers dont have to deal with those that dont want to pvp.