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Bad Days Ahead..........Immediate Responce Required

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Bad Days Ahead..........Immediate Responce Required

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
02.17.2017 , 07:21 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by americanaussie View Post
If they're rage quitting over dead servers then they'd simply find another reason to rage quit. As a sub, we get 600cc. The sale has been on for some time. That's approximately 18 characters that could be transferred. More if you have a longer sub. All without having to pay extra money.

So what happens when a merge occurs? All accts are forced to select a different server home. It's like a transfer. All accts have a name check. In a proper merger, the system would check to see who had the name first. If the transferring person did then they keep it and the one on say...harby would have to change.
Guild ships, strongholds, etc etc all lost.

So now gamer Joe who has been away from the game for 6 months decides to return.
Joe logs in and sees all of his characters need renaming.
His strong hold is gone.
His guild is gone.
His guildships is gone.
His legacy cargo is gone.

What does gamer Joe do? He says eff that and immediately quits.

Now something needs to be done but they need to find a way to preserve stuff. If you log in to find all your stuff deleted then you'd rage quit...or I probably would.

So what will happen with any merger is that they will have email notices sent out for several weeks or a couple months in advance to warn people and list their options. So no merger will happen any time soon. If you want to play with lots of people then find your way over to a populated server.
Your analysis of what a server merge would do to an account, sorry, a legacy is ... faulty, but the situation isn't as simple as some would like to think. What I'm about to describe is an *ideal*, not a prediction of what would happen in SWTOR if they merge servers.

OK, so let's take the example of merging servers X and Y. And let's do it by producing server Z from the debris. (Allods Online did this when they merged all the Euro and NA language-specific servers into a Euro cross-language server and an NA English/English server. The two new servers both had names that were not the names of any of the older servers. And when they merged the Euro and NA servers into a single non-Russian(1) server, it had yet another new name.)

Each legacy on Z would be an exact, total copy of the corresponding legacy on X or Y. No changes in legacy storage, stronghold unlockedness and activation, etc. Character name collisions would be resolved in some specific sort of way (either most-recent-login or oldest-character-creation-date or first-login-afterwards, probably - all of these have disadvantages, although the first and last are less problematic than the second).

Legacy name collisions aren't a thing, since legacy names don't have to be unique per server even now.

Guild *contents* (ship, stronghold, placed decorations, bank contents, member list, etc.) are just transferred from X or Y to Z. When Allods did this, colliding guild names acquired a suffix that indicated the server of origin. So the two different Flying Sheep(2) guilds would become Flying Sheep (X) and Flying Sheep (Y).

As far as I can see, the only real issue is character count. So right now, Johnny has 40 characters on X and 30 on Y. Does that mean he has 70 on Z? Do they up the limit per server? Do they simply force him to choose 18 that will be inactive?

But as I said, that's an ideal.

And the programming issue thing arises because a lot of things have been added to the game since the last server merges, and their server-merge program / scripting may well not have been kept up-to-date with those additions.

(1) The developers are a Russian outfit that's now published by my.com outside Russia, and mail.ru inside. I think they are actually part of mail.ru themselves.

(2) A real guild name, thanks. Many of my Pub side characters on Mantle of the Force belong to it.
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AscendingSky's Avatar


AscendingSky
02.17.2017 , 07:31 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
The game had no LFG queuing system when it launched. There was no queuing system to rely upon at all, let alone heavily. There was an option to show yourself as "looking for group" in the /who lists, but that was it. Groups were formed manually. This required some actual effort on the part of players to find/form a group, though, and we can't possibly expect Johnny to have to advertise in chat that he is looking to join/fill a group.

BW introduced the LFG tool later, in response to the clamoring from the "instant gratification, have to run it NOW, and don't make me form my own groups" crowd.
Oh please, now you're being silly. Standing around on fleet spamming LFG messages for hours on end, unable to do anything in the meantime (like class quests, heroics, dailies, gathering mats, etc.), hoping people on fleet would want to do the FP you did because you had no way of reaching the rest of the server with your LFG requests, was not some sort of character-building, heart-warming, noble struggle worthy of praise and respect. It was just plain boring and a waste of people's time. The Group Finder was a much-needed quality of life improvement for the game, and it was surprising the game launched without one.
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.17.2017 , 09:35 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by AscendingSky View Post
Oh please, now you're being silly. Standing around on fleet spamming LFG messages for hours on end, unable to do anything in the meantime (like class quests, heroics, dailies, gathering mats, etc.), hoping people on fleet would want to do the FP you did because you had no way of reaching the rest of the server with your LFG requests, was not some sort of character-building, heart-warming, noble struggle worthy of praise and respect. It was just plain boring and a waste of people's time. The Group Finder was a much-needed quality of life improvement for the game, and it was surprising the game launched without one.
My response was directed toward someone who claims to have been playing from launch, yet also claims that this game was HEAVILY dependent on LFG queuing from launch and wants to vilify BW for not having cross realm queuing at launch, despite the fact that there was NO LFG queuing at launch.

As for your point of doing other things while queue'd. It has or to do with laziness and not wanting to put forth the effort to actually find or form a group, IMO.

In my experience, very few players actually DID other things while queue'd. Many simply sat around in fleet and let the game do the work of finding a group for them. Maybe they were watching Youtube videos while waiting to hear that "we found you a group" sound. Many of them definitely were NOT out and about questing on planets or anything.

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
02.17.2017 , 09:49 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Liathan View Post
To be fair, they are probably on Harbinger because they want the higher population.
Just to clarify Harbinger is currently around what the population of Shadowland's was in 3.0 it had a substantially larger population a year ago.
“I grok in fullness.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

MaximumOwnage's Avatar


MaximumOwnage
02.17.2017 , 10:42 AM | #75
Over 2800 views in less than a day. Can we please have a developer respond to this issue one way or another?

This is an important issue to a lot of players. Can you at least respond and acknowledge something? I don't think this is an unreasonable request.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.17.2017 , 10:56 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximumOwnage View Post
Over 2800 views in less than a day. Can we please have a developer respond to this issue one way or another?

This is an important issue to a lot of players. Can you at least respond and acknowledge something? I don't think this is an unreasonable request.
To be fair, I bet 1200+ of those were from Ratajack...so it's probably not as big of an issue as it appears.

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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.17.2017 , 11:03 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Your analysis of what a server merge would do to an account, sorry, a legacy is ... faulty, but the situation isn't as simple as some would like to think. What I'm about to describe is an *ideal*, not a prediction of what would happen in SWTOR if they merge servers.

OK, so let's take the example of merging servers X and Y. And let's do it by producing server Z from the debris. (Allods Online did this when they merged all the Euro and NA language-specific servers into a Euro cross-language server and an NA English/English server. The two new servers both had names that were not the names of any of the older servers. And when they merged the Euro and NA servers into a single non-Russian(1) server, it had yet another new name.)

Each legacy on Z would be an exact, total copy of the corresponding legacy on X or Y. No changes in legacy storage, stronghold unlockedness and activation, etc. Character name collisions would be resolved in some specific sort of way (either most-recent-login or oldest-character-creation-date or first-login-afterwards, probably - all of these have disadvantages, although the first and last are less problematic than the second).

Legacy name collisions aren't a thing, since legacy names don't have to be unique per server even now.

Guild *contents* (ship, stronghold, placed decorations, bank contents, member list, etc.) are just transferred from X or Y to Z. When Allods did this, colliding guild names acquired a suffix that indicated the server of origin. So the two different Flying Sheep(2) guilds would become Flying Sheep (X) and Flying Sheep (Y).

As far as I can see, the only real issue is character count. So right now, Johnny has 40 characters on X and 30 on Y. Does that mean he has 70 on Z? Do they up the limit per server? Do they simply force him to choose 18 that will be inactive?

But as I said, that's an ideal.

And the programming issue thing arises because a lot of things have been added to the game since the last server merges, and their server-merge program / scripting may well not have been kept up-to-date with those additions.

(1) The developers are a Russian outfit that's now published by my.com outside Russia, and mail.ru inside. I think they are actually part of mail.ru themselves.

(2) A real guild name, thanks. Many of my Pub side characters on Mantle of the Force belong to it.
This may be an "ideal" situation, but it is far from reality.

None of the server merges were simply "copy and paste". In every server merge, guilds had to be reformed on the new server (and pray that your guild name had not already been taken), then the GM had to go through customer support to have the guild bank re-authorized. Getting the guild bank re-authorized could take weeks, or longer, by itself. Anything in the guild banks was lost and had to be replaced. Customer support was unable to simply "restore" the contents of the guild banks.

That was also long before the implementation of guild ships, guild strongholds, legacy storage, etc.

Now, in addition to the headaches that guilds suffered in the previous merges, add guild ships, guild strongholds, legacy storage, etc. to the list of headaches that players will have to suffer.

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
02.17.2017 , 12:38 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximumOwnage View Post
Over 2800 views in less than a day. Can we please have a developer respond to this issue one way or another?

This is an important issue to a lot of players. Can you at least respond and acknowledge something? I don't think this is an unreasonable request.
Combine that with the many other server population threads like the recent 'combine shadowlands with jc' and some kind of reply is long overdue.

1) Nope we can't do it
course of action- move remaining toons to harbinger
2) Yes we plan on doing it in 2017
course of action - sit tight
3) Stay nebulous and unresponsive
course of action - let sub run out, check in on the guild as a f2p every other month
“I grok in fullness.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
02.17.2017 , 01:24 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by HuaRya View Post
Combine that with the many other server population threads like the recent 'combine shadowlands with jc' and some kind of reply is long overdue.

1) Nope we can't do it
course of action- move remaining toons to harbinger
2) Yes we plan on doing it in 2017
course of action - sit tight
3) Stay nebulous and unresponsive
course of action - let sub run out, check in on the guild as a f2p every other month
If anyone actually checked those "other threads" and this one, they would find that there are actually relatively few people posting in these spammed "merge servers NOW!!!!" threads, on either side of the debate.

Why wait for BW to say "We can't do it." Why not just move those remaining toons to Harbinger now?

Jplankey's Avatar


Jplankey
02.17.2017 , 01:35 PM | #80
They should be like www.eveonline.cvom and hav one server, which has an average of 40k'(40,000) players online at one time, with very little lag. Except in no security 0,0 space fleet battles, were thousands battle in epic fights.