Make Shroud of Memory Available for Everyone

I'm honestly not sure how to feel about this. I know anyone here will be more than happy to correct me if I"m wrong, but out of all the subscriber rewards that have been offered in the game's lifetime so far, SoM's the only thing that's been story content and everything else has been cosmetic tchotchkes?

If so, for as much as the usual crowd's touting the expected 'FYGM' attitude we're so familiar with on the forums with the usual fiat statement that Bioware will never change their minds at all about subscriber rewards, I wonder if that will pan out to be the case in this specific circumstance. Yeah, the Celebration Jawa is not the completely exact thing as the Party Jawa, but for the in game achievements, it's close enough to qualify and for those who manage not to get the Celebration Jawa this time and who don't have the Party Jawa, I'd say precedent enough's been set for them to crack out a similar in function Festival Jawa or some other celebratory named Jawa to accommodate newcomers to the game.

SoM's different because it is story content. Simply by the nature of MMO membership of the usual revolving door of players coming and going and/or playing alts, the amount of people who are going to see/replay that content is going to dwindle, meaning dev resources were spent on something that's going to have a limited play/replay return on effort spent. I know the same can be said towards content like Ops with not many getting to see that content, but it's not impossible for enough like minded people to do a little reading up on a particular Ops to prepare and run a 'let's see the content' session. For as much as one of the often stated complaints about this game is lack of new story content, it's an odd choice to take a one shot bit of story content and make it so limited access.

More I think on it, I'm really not seeing the point of getting so upset at the idea of opening SoM up to others. I mean it's not like asking for allowing the cartel coin stipend open to everyone of which, yeah, I'd be getting my e-pitchfork out to join the mob saying no on that. I see no problem with them offering up a chance to qualify for the chapter on something like the anniversary of KotFE by being a subscriber on that date. That way new people who haven't even heard of the game have a chance, and it's still semi-gated by having a requirement.

As someone pointed out earlier, the achievements related to the party Jawa were never subscriber rewards or promised as exclusive--ONLY the Party Jawa was. Offering a Jawa with a different model does not make subscriber rewards "available again", despite what some would have to think.

As someone pointed out earlier, the achievements related to the party Jawa were never subscriber rewards or promised as exclusive--ONLY the Party Jawa was. Offering a Jawa with a different model does not make subscriber rewards "available again", despite what some would have to think.

The problem with offering up the chapter again is the CLEAR AND EXPLICIT criteria which BW set forth in the terms and conditions. A simple forum search will turn up more than one thread in which those CLEAR AND EXPLICIT criteria contained within the terms and conditions are quoted.

Here they are again, though:


*Terms and Conditions

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.
*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.
** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.
* ACCEPTANCE OF END USER ACCESS AND LICENSE AGREEMENT ('EUALA'), PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION, AND ACCOUNT REGISTRATION REQUIRED TO PLAY. MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER. ACCOUNT IS NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. PAID SUBSCRIPTION, VALID AND ACCEPTED PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD (IF AVAILABLE) REQUIRED TO ACCESS SUBSCRIPTION GAMEPLAY. PAYMENT METHOD AGE RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY. SWTOR ONLINE SERVICE MAY BE DISCONTINUED. SEE EUALA FOR DETAILS. AGREEMENT TO SHARE ACCOUNT INFORMATION WITH LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD. ('LUCASFILM') IS REQUIRED TO ACCESS GAMEPLAY. GAME INTENDED FOR PLAY ONLY WITHIN NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE AND CERTAIN OTHER TERRITORIES. USE OF CARTEL COINS SUBJECT TO DIGITAL SERVICES AGREEMENT. PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE AVAILABLE AT WWW.SWTOR.COM. ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO PLAY THE GAME APPLY AT ALL TIMES. SUBSCRIPTIONS MAY BE CANCELLED AT ANY TIME. SEE WWW.SWTOR.COM FOR DETAILS.

Notice that it does NOT say "until we decide to sell it again or otherwise make it available again."

Regardless of the nature of the subscriber reward, cosmetic fluff or story content, no subscriber reward has ever been made available again (by ANY means, no matter how much or how loudly those that are NOT entitled to have those rewards complain), nor should they be.

Just thought I would give my two credits on this topic:

I played this game a little bit before 3.0 came out until a little before ziost was released. During this time I was not a sub. I understood that any rewards that a sub got I wouldn't get. This was fine since most rewards were cosmetic.

I then decided to come back a little bit before 5.0 came out, a couple days after shae visla was locked out. I did not hear one thing about nico, shroud of memory, or shae before I rejoined the game. I decided I wanted to sub this time around because I wanted to do the new story content. I am currently planning on staying a sub until I want to stop playing, whenever that day comes.

Now I currently am at chapter 9 of Kotfe on two characters. I have enjoyed the story so far. I then found out that a single chapter was given as a reward to subs at a specific time, same with a few companions. This made me curious if I was going to need to buy it since I wasn't a sub at the time. This game wasn't even in my radar (I didn't know Kotfe was a thing until I found out Kotet was a thing). Now I am happy to pay for this chapter since the subs who earned it through paying their subscription fee had to pay their subscription fee. But then I find that the pay wall is a bit out of reach. By out of reach I mean that to get this chapter you have to pay for a R&D division in time travel, then the price of a time travel machine, then the price of whatever form of fuel it takes to run, and then the subscription fee for the specific time you had to sub to get it. This makes it hard to want to play a game when you know at some point you will be rejected the ability to acquire content to a game.

Now I am not saying I should have it right now because, to my current knowledge, the subs have only had it for about 4-5 months. That seems a bit short for exclusivity. So why not release it on the Cartel Market one calendar year after the subs who qualified received it. (I would also add that the exclusive companions should go this route too since companions are another form of content imo, but that is another discussion for another time)

Now the reason I feel this would work is because instead of punishing people who didn't sub ( / DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT THIS GAME EXISTED / THAT IT WAS STILL GETTING UPDATES) It is just rewarding subs with limited time exclusivity and no price on top of your monthly sub.

The difference between punishing a non-sub and rewarding a sub imo is that if the reward that locks out others effects gameplay or is a piece of content in the game and is unobtainable after then it is a form of punishment. If it doesn't effect gameplay or if it does but is obtainable sometime after it is just a reward.

What bioware seems to think is that by punishing people for not subbing during a specific time they are forcing people to sub. What they don't see is that it is also alienating new players or returning players from getting back into the game and supporting it due to them being punished for simply not knowing that they were suppose to sub to a game they weren't even playing at the time in order to get content for when they eventually choose to play the game.

It is like if the Batman Arkham games never release the mini episodes that came as pre order bonuses after the game is released. It would make players feel like they are missing out on content even though they would have to pay for it if they released it.

But what do I know. I am just a perfect example of someone who was punished for returning to the game late. And will forever have an empty circle in my chapter select screen that may eventually make me feel like I shouldn't even be supporting a game that refuses to let me buy content that they tease you with.

You KNOW that writing with every FEW words capitalized doesn't make your POINT any more valid.

What I was TRYING to SAY was that this SYSTEM is punishing newcomers from LOCKING content BEHIND a "Time Travel Paywall". It does not make ME want to subscribe. It makes it SO that newcomers feel they are left OUT of content that APPEARS to be part of the MAIN storyline. EVERYONE has the HK mission in THEIR chapter select. It doesn't MATTER if you got the sub punishment mitigation EVERY sees it and so NEW and RETURNING players are taunted by the game they are PAYING for. I mean it almost MAKES me want to NOT subscribe until NEW chapters come out. What is the POINT of subbing now when I will HAVE to sub later to BE able to PLAY the content that is PRESENTED as part of the main STORYLINE. This elitism of the "I subbed so why should you be able to get it is any way shape or form" mentality makes NEW players and even RETURNING ones that came back because THEY chose that THEY wanted to REJOIN a game.

Now the idea that you should be able to get it for FREE is also an issue and so I TRIED to show that I am WILLING to pay real MONEY for a SINGLE chapter. The idea that I am expecting to GET anything because I JUST showed up is ludicrous. I do however find it REASONABLE to expect a game that PRIDES itself on STORY to allow PLAYERS to PLAY the story to its fullest. But what do I know.

So lets do another example of what this kind of business practice would look like elsewhere. So lets take Mass Effect 4 (I know it doesn't exist but the point still stands)
EA announces that there will be a Collectors edition, a pre-order edition, and the regular game.
The collectors edition comes with lots of cool cosmetics in game, an in game boost, a new mission and never before seen content.
The pre-order edition just comes with the game, new mission, and the exclusive content

The game comes out.

Then a kid who just turned 13 gets the new game, well not new because it is a year old by now. He has seen just snip its of the game from a friend and he talks about his favorite mission (the exclusive one). He puts the game in to find out that the mother decided not to buy the game's collector's edition but the kid is fine with this because he just wanted to play the game. He then finds out that he can't access a part of the game that the game shows the player they haven't done yet because his mom didn't preorder the game a year before she even knew the kid wanted to play the game. The mother decides she wants to make her kid happy so she calls up customer service to find out how to buy this mission he wants to play. They tell her she can't buy it because it was a pre-order exclusive and they can't give it away to just anyone. The kid is sad because they never got the finish the game. The mom is sad because they couldn't make the kid happy. The mom remembers this and doesn't buy any more games from the company unless she is getting the preorder exclusive. Oh and the friend doesn't get effected by any of this because the game is a year old and the bragging rights are all worn off for this specific bonus.

I am all for pre-order bonuses, even with content, but if it is content it shouldn't be locked being a time machine.

Also to your thing about "I should of been on the forums if I wanted to get a main story chapters"
I DIDN'T THINK I WAS GOING TO COME BACK TO THE GAME. If I was I probably would of paid a bit more attention.
It is kind of stuck up to think that everyone is going to keep up with every game that exists just to be sure they don't miss out on STORY CONTENT IN A GAME THAT'S MAIN ATTRACTION IS ITS STORY CONTENT.

You can say CHOICE as much as you want but would you choose to play a game that you weren't finding fun? Because then I pity you. The problem is not that you were rewarded. The problem is that to give you a reward they had to punish everyone else. That is not good game design. Its not even sound marketing. It is a lazy way to force people to give you money so I am not surprised when people brag about how they spent the least amount of money on a game that is only trying to get the most money out of you.

Really they should of made it so the only punishment for not subbing is that you wouldn't be able to play any chapters. That way you wouldn't have people only subbing to get the most amount of chapters per dollar. If you want more story, ops, flashpoints, warzones, and the rest past 50 you should be a sub. That is the basis of their sub model. They just are making it so you only need to sub once to get all story content up to 70...

Now on to the idea that you paid for the reward. No you didn't. Or at least if you did you were being used. You were paying for the same thing you have been since the launch of f2p. Your subscription. Just during those months you got a bit extra since there was actually nothing to keep you subbed. That is basically bioware, and to an extent EA, twisting your arm behind you back and shoving your face into cake but you can't eat the cake until you let them rip your arm off.

But what do I know. Your the founder sub that deserves to get everything while not letting others attempt to get anything. I am just the peasant.

More victim playing rather than actually accepting responsibility for a decision that YOU made?

"Oh woe is me!!!! I CHOSE not to subscribe and now I'm being PUNISHED!!!!!! BW, Foul!!!!!!!"



You say you are willing to pay to experience that chapter? How much are you willing to pay?

I am against BW ever making it available again, BY ANY MEANS, but IMO, IF BW were to make it available again, it should be sold for real money only (NO CC's as there are far too many "FREE" CC's floating around) and that cost should be equal to 8 months subscription, as that is what those who DID meet the criteria to receive the BONUS chapter had to pay. Are you willing to pay $120 real money to have access to that chapter since that is what those who DID meet the CLEAR AND EXPLICIT criteria to receive that chapter had to pay based on the single month subscription rate? Or, do you want to be able to pay a pittance to have what you are NOT entitled to have?

First- Stop with the petty name calling.

Now the reason why I am saying punished is because the style of subscription service is a punishment based system. It is a subscription based game where you can play with a "punishment" for free.

I don't see the major reason why it has to be real money. I am fine with it being real money however. I am not willing to pay for 8 months of subscription for a single chapter. That is absurd and you know it. So why did you.

Well you didn't. You paid for eight months of subscription and you got an extra chapter for free. If you just paid for the subscription by itself that would be absurd. I do think that 25-40 dollar range is more agreeable for a single chapter since a single chapter is more akin to a story dlc. But that wouldn't be fair because you decided to pay for 120 dollars for a single chapter. Wait isn't that playing the victim too. I am saying that the business practice behind locking content behind a time travel pay wall is absurd and should not be in place. I do agree with the idea of timed exclusivity, but I already explained this with the pre-order analogy. I think if you paid for a subscription during a dry spell you should be entitled to some reward. I agree with giving an early release of a chapter, by one whole year, is fine. Also no additional cost beyond your subscription. These all sound fine for the dry spell players. I personally enjoy dry spells in games because it means you can gear alts or even replay old stories. I am fine with you maintaining your limited exclusivity. I am against the locking of content behind a TIME TRAVEL PAY WALL.

I have said that multiple times now and I mean it. All subscriber bonuses are behind them and most I am fine with. I disagree with locking story content behind it however. This is bolstered by the fact achievements are locked behind it, and it will forever (as of the current statements from bioware that you have repeated multiple times) be sitting in your chapter select screen with an empty circle. That is wrong in so many ways. It hurts the idea of completionists getting into the game, it confuses newcomers when they can't access a chapter in their chapter select, and it taunts players with a false hope of being able to play it before they get to it. If they didn't want players to complain about not being able to buy the chapter that bioware is showing off then they shouldn't of put it in the chapter select for ever player and just put it in for qualifying players.

Also why are you so against bioware bring story content that most players, still talking if they had a one year limited exclusivity, who earned it have already played multiple times. I am for cosmetic and even non story based companions being subscriber exclusive. Those should be a reward. But the moment they are a form of story content I can't justify locking it behind a time travel pay wall. MMOs are a revolving door with people coming and going often so as time progresses the only people who can do this single player story will diminish. I mean I still have not seen what the story is and only just found out that it is a mission where you play as hk (is that correct?).

And finally on the topic of you saying that people are playing the victim with the "punishment" style implementation of the story content in a story based mmo. What do you think you would see in the forums if they randomly decided to give all old subscriber rewards, including cosmetics, a spot on the cartel market. People would be "playing the victim". I am not a victim of bioware. I am a consumer and I am stating that I disagree with their buisness practices and believe there is a better way to go about rewarding their long term subscribers. Just like how you are saying that you like the time travel pay wall exclusivity. I like it for cosmetics but not story content, especially in a game that is based on story content.

Edit: I just thought of another way to make it so that long term subscribers are rewarded while allowing future players to gain access to the chapters. What if they changed it to a loyalty program where they gave out a "bonus chapter" as you call them every 12 months and if you sub non stop from a a set of specific dates you get it for 8 months loyalty or you can get it for 10 months if it is outside the set of dates. This way you are getting "punished" for not being loyal like the elitists but giving grace for new comers. This way new comers can still gain access to the chapters while older players are still getting new chapters at a slightly lower "price" (still think it is more of a reward and not a product you are buying through the current system)

I simply do not support making any of the past subscriber rewards available again.


That being said, I have said in many of the other threads created by people "suggesting" (read demanding) that they be given access to subscriber rewards which they KNOW they do NOT meet the criteria to receive that I would wholeheartedly support a "veteran" style reward system going forward, in addition to the time specific subscriber reward system.


I do think the two types of reward systems should have separate and distinct rewards, though. What rewards are made available through the time specific reward system should ONLY be available for that specific and limited time and the veteran rewards should always be available to all who pass the total time benchmarks required.

I think that continuing with the time specific reward system for some items still provides incentive for players to subscribe during the "low spells" and not simply "cherry pick" those times when they want to subscribe.

The "veteran" reward system still rewards those long time subscribers based upon total length of time subscribed, but with different rewards. After all, why should Johnny subscribe during this "low spell" if he can just wait til the next "prime time" and add a few more months to his total time toward that "time specific limited time" shiny?