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Exploits and Galactic Command

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Exploits and Galactic Command
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cashtwomuchos's Avatar


cashtwomuchos
11.28.2016 , 04:03 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
This isn't my first rodeo with postings in MMOs about exploits and I've seen it go awry before. You need to make it crystal clear what constitutes crossing the line and that means being proactive about the details of CXP and gains, not just being reactive when you inevitably get reports about some bug.
Exactly.

There are mechanics in place in this game that will be used by players to get CXP the fastest way possible (like resetting OPS). Eric, Bioware can't just say: BE WARNED! When it is unclear what to be warned about in specific detail.

Everything can be considered an "exploit" if you get 999 bug reports about a specific mechanic in the game that gives a player CXP. But again, it is just being vague as usual instead of being crystal clear.

DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
11.28.2016 , 04:15 PM | #12
It sounds to me that they are aware that there can be an exploit and that if there is they don't know exactly what it is and wanna catch it and fix it before it goes live on the second to those who don't have early access. As always people who get early access are the beta testers.
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
11.28.2016 , 04:18 PM | #13 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey folks,

I am seeing a few questions in the thread about "what constitutes an exploit" and things along those lines. First, you don't need to have concerns about simply playing the game. Earning a lot of CXP is in no way an exploit. Play and earn CXP as much as you want, you won't be punished for that.

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

The reason that we put out this messaging is that we know players are going to want to push the boundaries to gain CXP as fast as possible, and we are totally ok with that. I just wanted to caution how you go about those gains and should you find a way to gain CXP that goes around intended mechanics, it could be an exploit. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is, report it to us so we can see if there is an issue.

-eric
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Theeko's Avatar


Theeko
11.28.2016 , 04:23 PM | #14
It's just like WoW's world quest where you can only do one every so often till it reappears but people have found a glitched one that you were able to do over and over just by simply logging out

tummiswtor's Avatar


tummiswtor
11.28.2016 , 04:26 PM | #15
You saved Yourself becouse know there'll be a lot of new bugs with 5.0

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Jerba's Avatar


Jerba
11.28.2016 , 04:34 PM | #16
Thanks for the reply! So I guess resetting quests/phases would be an exploit but just doing quests or killing open-world mobs for achievements is fine.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
11.28.2016 , 04:37 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

I am seeing a few questions in the thread about "what constitutes an exploit" and things along those lines. First, you don't need to have concerns about simply playing the game. Earning a lot of CXP is in no way an exploit. Play and earn CXP as much as you want, you won't be punished for that.

As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.

The reason that we put out this messaging is that we know players are going to want to push the boundaries to gain CXP as fast as possible, and we are totally ok with that. I just wanted to caution how you go about those gains and should you find a way to gain CXP that goes around intended mechanics, it could be an exploit. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is, report it to us so we can see if there is an issue.

-eric
I appreciate the response and I understand you are just the messenger, but I want to make a point of noting that the following statement:
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[color=#f9d648]As for the question of what is an exploit, it is really quite simple. Play the game/content as it was intended and there is no risk. If you are playing through content in a way that was not intended, it can be considered an exploit and subject to investigation/action.
is a tautology, aka: circular.

"What is an exploit?" It's what isn't intended.

"What's not intended?" Anything that is an exploit.

Might seem obvious to the devs, since they know what their intentions were, but we don't all know what the intentions are.

For example, the question TUX asked about resetting an instance. Would that be considered an exploit? To me, it seems like one of those things that is on the borderline... maybe not intended, but not necessarily game breaking either. It's also the kind of thing that could be avoided in development by (for example) storing mob kill data somewhere for things that have a weekly lockout and then putting in code that says the mob kills only give you the XP once a week on that character. That is, if it is a thing that is unintended.

But with it open-ended as it is, we need to know.
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DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
11.28.2016 , 04:46 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
I appreciate the response and I understand you are just the messenger, but I want to make a point of noting that the following statement:

is a tautology, aka: circular.

"What is an exploit?" It's what isn't intended.

"What's not intended?" Anything that is an exploit.

Might seem obvious to the devs, since they know what their intentions were, but we don't all know what the intentions are.

For example, the question TUX asked about resetting an instance. Would that be considered an exploit? To me, it seems like one of those things that is on the borderline... maybe not intended, but not necessarily game breaking either. It's also the kind of thing that could be avoided in development by (for example) storing mob kill data somewhere for things that have a weekly lockout and then putting in code that says the mob kills only give you the XP once a week on that character. That is, if it is a thing that is unintended.

But with it open-ended as it is, we need to know.
I don't think they know what the exploit is exactly that can happen and if they do, they aren't saying because they don't want people to do it and admit that the expansion isn't up to code like they wanted it to be or they are just worried an exploit will happen because as with the KOTFE expansion it dropped something in the system broke and there was a credit exploit and the same thing can happen with this new system when it drops, something in the game will break and cause an exploit except this time it has to deal with CXP instead of credits. What it is or possibly could be they don't know or are unwilling to tell us. It also maybe that they don't want to tell us so people who have used exploits in the past can be caught in the act and dealt with properly. This is all theoretical of course but I put nothing past Bioware.
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Deaconik's Avatar


Deaconik
11.28.2016 , 04:52 PM | #19
OK Eric, I'll PM you a bug I encountered yesterday, I don't know if this is being fixed by 5.0 but this would be a WONDERFUL HEAVENS DREAM!!!! exploit

Anyway, tell us whether resetting instances is an exploit or not. This is not intended use as I see it, but who knows, maybe you intended us to do it.

Also, if /stuck on bosses works(e.g. Bestia), is this an exploit?
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Alssaran's Avatar


Alssaran
11.28.2016 , 05:06 PM | #20
I think people are reading too much into this in terms of intention. I doubt Bioware knows that there is a specific exploit that they are pushing to live, but I rather think Bioware wants to make sure that people are aware that exploiting the game has a punishment. Period.

Bioware was accused of being too soft with exploiters and their ill-received gains in the past, and they were constantly "attacked" for not making cause and effect clear enough. This is a clear message: If you find a way to quickly cap GCXP on multiple characters within the first week, you are doing something that isn't intended to be.

Now, here's where it gets important: Eric has made an important point about the idea that "if it is too good to be true, it probably is!" People who engage in exploits are often quite aware that what they are doing is not intended to be done, or supported by the average/intended game mechanics in any way. Let me take the world quest example from WoW:

The world quest system promotes traveling the Broken Isles in order to complete certain quests that rewards Order Hall Resources (a currency used for building troops for missions and upgrading your class hall), gold, crafting materials, and artifact power (think of it as "experience" for weapons). Players found a bugged world quest in Suramar that enabled them to complete the quest over and over again after logging out. Kill ten mobs. Gain 5k XP. Log out and back in. Rince and Repeat.

Now, seeing that every other world quest is designed to be done once, it was quite clear that this was a bug. The quest was not intended to behave that way. The AP gain was ridiculous, and no other world quest ever reset that quickly or upon relogging within a few seconds. The players who repeatedly used that quest knew that they were using a bug to trick the system.

Let's put that into SWTOR terms:

Imagine you want to farm GCXP by doing solo mode flashpoints. You travel to the FP using the GC interface. Now, you might be playing a shadow like me, and sneaking past mobs is the trick of the trade. You stealth, run past the trash, and only kill the available bosses. You then use "Exit Area" to travel back, then reset and do the same thing again. This would not be an exploit, seeing that you are only using the tools the game is providing, and the mechanics as they were meant to be used:

Stealth is meant to avoid trash mobs/mobs as a class that can actually stealth through the dungeon. You're not traveling anywhere you're not supposed to be. You kill the bosses fair and square. Then you reset the flashpoint with an intended reset mechanic and do the same thing again. You're just doing what people have always been doing for years - use the reset mechanic to farm the bosses and skip trash.

Now imagine you're doing warzones. GCXP is a reward. It's supposed to be given out as a complimentary reward after finishing an activity - killing a boss and ending a warzone come to mind. You quit one of the warzones before it actually ends, and you get a big command XP booster. You're a sly person, and you try that again. You join a warzone and quit after a few seconds without the warzone even having started properly. And...you're awarded an experience booster again! You do that over and over again. You don't finish a single warzone for two hours, and yet you make five to six levels per hour. That's most likely uninteded, seeing that you aren't even rewarded for doing anything. Reward are distributed at the end of a warzone since 1.0. Everyone who has the slightest experience with PvP knows that.

TL;DR:

If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Use common sense.

Quote:
Anyway, tell us whether resetting instances is an exploit or not. This is not intended use as I see it, but who knows, maybe you intended us to do it.
Of course it's the intended use. You can reset an instance if you've killed all the bosses and obtained their loot. This has always been the case since "ancient times". Before the dark times of 3.0. You're not circumventing any mechanic at all. You're not using a system in an unintended way. You reset the FP as soon as all the bosses are down. That's the intended effect.