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Nerf Sorc healers


Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
08.30.2016 , 05:28 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Schoock View Post
Afraid someone might fight back when your stunlock ends?
No, such thing as stun-lock unless multiple enemies are focusing down 1 person with coordinated cc and burst. That is how it should be.

Unless you have 3+ people on someone they won't die in a single stun 99% of the time anyway. So, if someone breaks the first stun they deserve to be stun-locked. Coordinated cc and burst is completely countered by only barrier and phase walk. Even enraged defense doesn't do as well.

Afraid to actually pay attention to resolve and use stun breaker properly?

Schoock's Avatar


Schoock
08.30.2016 , 05:46 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
Afraid to actually pay attention to resolve and use stun breaker properly?
In most 8v8 maps in about 80% of the scenarios your breaker won't help you anything, it's not even worth wasting.

Oh, and just to make it clear: I was talking about making life better for OTHER classes, not further buffing Sorcs.
Faction imbalance is the scientific term for saying player skills mature at a later age than that of the intended audience of a certain faction.

Ne'laa & other Mentally Challenged from The Red Eclipse

Schoock's Avatar


Schoock
08.30.2016 , 05:49 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by VixenRawR View Post
More abilities usable while stunned? Then what the hell is the point of stunning someone? Oh you are "stunned" but not really? I mean you are basically saying cc shouldn't exist then. I agree that the ability to use any ability while cc'd should be blocked. The point of cc is to prevent people from using abilities while stunned. Might as well remove the stun and make it a root at that point, if you can just use all your dcds while stunned.
Allowing damage reduction cooldowns to be activated while stunned is not the same as being rooted.

Quote: Originally Posted by VixenRawR View Post
If you hate stun locking then tell them to fix resolve, make roots build resolve, increase resolve from knockbacks and reduce the plethora of cc from every single class. No one needs that many. Sorcs shouldn't be able to slow you with most of their abilities. Force slow should be their slow, other attacks shouldn't have a built in slow. CC should be separated from damage in my opinion. This would also save some heartache.
Fixing resolve would go a long way, but it's unlikely to happen. Every form of CC should generate resolve, slows less, roots somewhat more and stuns even more. Also their duration should be proportional to the actual resolve generated, i.e. if you stun someone just before the guy is on full resolve, you get a very very short stun.

I also agree with removing most of the CC that's currently in the game. Especially the amount of slows/roots is ridiculous, as resolve doesn't really work against them. (It prevents roots, but you'll still be crawling at half speed.)
Faction imbalance is the scientific term for saying player skills mature at a later age than that of the intended audience of a certain faction.

Ne'laa & other Mentally Challenged from The Red Eclipse

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
08.30.2016 , 06:01 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Schoock View Post
In most 8v8 maps in about 80% of the scenarios your breaker won't help you anything, it's not even worth wasting.

Oh, and just to make it clear: I was talking about making life better for OTHER classes, not further buffing Sorcs.
The thing is you don't have to worry about using your breaker on a sorc as you already have two other ways to escape cc. All other classes have to be more concerned with cc. Some are able to use cooldowns while stunned. And let's be clear, those should not be able to be used while stunned either.

Schoock's Avatar


Schoock
08.30.2016 , 06:08 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
The thing is you don't have to worry about using your breaker on a sorc as you already have two other ways to escape cc. All other classes have to be more concerned with cc. Some are able to use cooldowns while stunned.
The thing is I was still talking about OTHER classes, not Sorcs. Happy you got that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
And let's be clear, those should not be able to be used while stunned either.
Because it would make the amount of CC in the game a tad bit more bearable with the fantastic matchmaking (i. e. none) there is in regs?
Faction imbalance is the scientific term for saying player skills mature at a later age than that of the intended audience of a certain faction.

Ne'laa & other Mentally Challenged from The Red Eclipse

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
08.30.2016 , 06:18 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Schoock View Post
The thing is I was still talking about OTHER classes, not Sorcs. Happy you got that.



Because it would make the amount of CC in the game a tad bit more bearable with the fantastic matchmaking (i. e. none) there is in regs?
Oh I have my opinions on cc as well. Cc should be dedicated abilities and not baked into attacks and rotations. At the very least.

Also ALL cc should both add to and respect resolve.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.30.2016 , 07:57 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Schoock View Post
If anything, more defensives should be available to any class while stunned.
+
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
No, no, no. Absolutely not. Hell no. This "useable while stunned" stupidity needs to end. Same with the stupid "cc immunity" crap.
+
Quote: Originally Posted by Schoock View Post
Afraid someone might fight back when your stunlock ends?
I think maybe you're missing part of the equation here. sorc healers aren't solo guarding nodes (unless BW put 3+ healers on their team). so no. it's not an issue of killing the sorc while he's by himself. the fit hits the shan when you have a guard. stuns prevent defense chance, but if a tank is transferring half of your dmg through him, then it is sort of unreasonable that the "stunned" player also has dcds available. I know I keep harping about trinity in every other thread, but that really is the underlying issue here. you should play with healers and tanks. you shouldn't have things the way they are now where half the classes/specs can take care of themselves while others are more or less naked w/o the healer and tank on their team.

TL; DR: 50% dmg transference should be your only DCD while stunned. and, frankly, if the DPS is such that it blows through your HP at that rate, you should die.

I would like to add a potentially controversial suggestion though: using the breaker while white barred should automatically reset the CD on breaker. especially in WZs, it feels like I'm being punished for having used my breaker properly cuz I can still get chain CC'd (2 full CCs) while my breaker is CD even though I used my breaker properly (while white barred). this would cut down on the time that everyone is in CC, so it would ameliorate the issue of taking away ability activation while stunned a little bit.
Krack

Schoock's Avatar


Schoock
08.30.2016 , 08:19 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I think maybe you're missing part of the equation here. sorc healers aren't solo guarding nodes (unless BW put 3+ healers on their team). so no. it's not an issue of killing the sorc while he's by himself. the fit hits the shan when you have a guard. stuns prevent defense chance, but if a tank is transferring half of your dmg through him, then it is sort of unreasonable that the "stunned" player also has dcds available. I know I keep harping about trinity in every other thread, but that really is the underlying issue here. you should play with healers and tanks. you shouldn't have things the way they are now where half the classes/specs can take care of themselves while others are more or less naked w/o the healer and tank on their team.

TL; DR: 50% dmg transference should be your only DCD while stunned. and, frankly, if the DPS is such that it blows through your HP at that rate, you should die.

I would like to add a potentially controversial suggestion though: using the breaker while white barred should automatically reset the CD on breaker. especially in WZs, it feels like I'm being punished for having used my breaker properly cuz I can still get chain CC'd (2 full CCs) while my breaker is CD even though I used my breaker properly (while white barred). this would cut down on the time that everyone is in CC, so it would ameliorate the issue of taking away ability activation while stunned a little bit.
It's kinda OK what you're saying, except that the game does not guarantee trinities anywhere. Team ranked is the team's own business, any other format is pure luck whether you get trinities or not. What about those games where you don't have trinity setups?
Faction imbalance is the scientific term for saying player skills mature at a later age than that of the intended audience of a certain faction.

Ne'laa & other Mentally Challenged from The Red Eclipse

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
08.30.2016 , 10:38 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Schoock View Post
It's kinda OK what you're saying, except that the game does not guarantee trinities anywhere. Team ranked is the team's own business, any other format is pure luck whether you get trinities or not. What about those games where you don't have trinity setups?
yes. welcome to the crux of the problem. the game's balance is based on trinity structure. but over the past two xpacs, it has become less dependent on said structure. but the breakaway is not uniform. there are clear "haves" and "have nots."

hmm. how to relate this...

did you play 8v8 ranked? grp ranked in general policies itself . and yes. even 4v4 grp ranked "requires" trinity. it's optimal. occasionally there are troll teams like the famous DDOS incident, but those are exception that prove the rule. in 8v8 ranked, it was unheard of to queue without at least 2 heals and 1 tank (the vanilla setup was 2:2:4). given the absurd escapes, mobility, and dcd that have been instituted over the course of 3.x and 4.x, trinity comps are less necessary in WZs, but that's because the new mobility breaks the maps rather than trinity no longer being effective.

I honestly don't think I need to continue to argue the "fact" that class balance in this game is predicated on trinity or that ranked is, a trinity format for all practical purposes.

the question you should ask is whether it should be or not because the other two formats don't normally pop with trinity. the reason they don't pop with trinity, however, is pretty clear: BW favors quantity of matches over quality of matches. unless some BW monkey comes on and directly refutes this, I'm going to consider it a fact. really. I mean...I don't even feel compelled to convince anyone of it at this point.

so that leads to the next logical question: should the trinity system be scrapped and all classes be rewritten to work in a equally self-sufficient manner? thus eliminating synergy between roles -- heck! thus eliminating roles! or should they adjust the matchmaking for solo ranked and reg queues to "force" trinity compositions?

my answer is yes! to either one of those. but I'm afraid neither will occur. we will continue with the half-arsed compromise at balance and frequency of matches. on the bright side, you can do something to control your own WZ experience with trinity: you can form a premade of your own. I don't much like that solution, but I think it's all we're gonna get, and it's the same thing we've had since launch.
Krack

VixenRawR's Avatar


VixenRawR
08.30.2016 , 11:30 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
+

I would like to add a potentially controversial suggestion though: using the breaker while white barred should automatically reset the CD on breaker. especially in WZs, it feels like I'm being punished for having used my breaker properly cuz I can still get chain CC'd (2 full CCs) while my breaker is CD even though I used my breaker properly (while white barred). this would cut down on the time that everyone is in CC, so it would ameliorate the issue of taking away ability activation while stunned a little bit.
Yah I've been thinking that a long time. White bar should reset the cooldown of your cc breaker. There are way to many stuns in this game. Stun immunity and dcds while stunned creates more problems and only a few classes get any real advantage of those kind of abilities. It's just a mess its no wonder people call this game "Stun Wars".
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