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August Producer Livestream Wrap-up


EricMusco

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While THIS may be "working as intended", I do hope you realize how many players you PO'd with this story telling decision. It's bad enough that I....THE EMPEROR'S WRATH...had to spend 16 chapters being told what to do by random Jedi dropouts and wanna be soldiers, thrown around like a rag doll by every freaking boss in the Zakul empire, and unable to interrupt most opponents. But to end a season with NO CLOSURE ON ANYTHING. I honestly have lost nearly all interest in KotET. And.I was one of your biggest supporters when y'all decided to focus on single player story.

 

Fool me one time, shame on you.

Fool me twice, can't put the blame on you

Fool me three times.......

 

Please.....Step ya storytelling game up BW. :confused:

 

Same boat here. I was hyped for kotfe, but the pessimists were right, and I have little faith that kotet will be any better.

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Will there be any subscriber rewards between now and the release of KOTET?

 

If you will follow suit and offer subscriber rewards associated with KOTET (like you did by offering rewards for being a subscriber for several months before KotFE was released) but can't announce those rewards until you officially reveal more info on the expansion, will you offer subscriber rewards between now and when more information on KOTET is officially revealed?

FYI, overall, I really enjoyed KotFE and am looking forward to the hk55 bonus chapter and KOTET.

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[*]We know there has been some concerns about story elements that didn't come to a close in KotFE. This was intentional as those story threads will continue into the future.

Not trying to sound hostile and I can only speak for myself, but I understood this perfectly. I never expected everything to be resolved. I just would have liked at least one thing to be resolved.

 

Your (the writers of KOTFE) experience may vary, but in my experience, the typical "season" cliffhanger format is: Some things are resolved, some things are not resolved, and one or two new things are added that now need to be resolved in the future.

 

I can't think of a single thing that was resolved at the end of chapter 16. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to hear you out on it.

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  • We know there has been some concerns about story elements that didn't come to a close in KotFE. This was intentional as those story threads will continue into the future.

 

-eric

I think the problem with the KotFE story is that the epic voyage and cliffhanger is Arcann’s, not the player’s.

 

Spoilers for all the KotFE chapters below.

 

Arcann:

 

His conflict begins in the KotFE trailer introducing Thexan and himself. It continues in KotFE as Arcann tries to kill his father, and dominates the Republic and Empire. Hubris prevents Arcann from taking steps to deal with the Alliance. Finally, he moves against the Alliance, and is met with defeat. Arcann loses the Eternal Throne, his position as ruler of Zakuul, and his sister. But, Arcann reconnects with his long-estranged mother. The story: to be continued in the next season.

 

 

That’s epic.

 

=====

 

The player’s character:

 

Fight Star Troopers

- Captured

- Rescued

Fight Star Troopers

- Set up as figurehead without any choice in the matter.

Fight Star Troopers

Fight Star Troopers

Fight Star Troopers

- Has minimal input about Alliance, and that small input is irrelevant.

Fight Star Troopers

- Has another fight with Arcann (previous fight on Asylum). The fight ends as a loss (fire on shuttle, Arcann and Senya escape), or at best as a draw (don’t fire on shuttle, Arcann and Senya escape).

 

This is not epic.

 

======

 

Valkorion

 

So far, Valkorion is a plot device to justify squishing non-Force using classes into KotFE.

 

=====

The KotFE story ends with:

 

Zakuulans and SCORPIO having all the juicy, gee-what-happens-next, story. Arcann, the deposed Emperor. Senya, the on her own side screw everyone else, mother and Knight. Vaylin the nutjob (but very interesting) new ruler of Zakuul. SCORPIO, the who knows what she’s (it’s) up to Alliance traitor. Valkorion, the ghost who is … there. And, maybe Koth with the stolen Gravestone.

 

That’s interesting.

 

======

 

 

The Outlander, a puppet figurehead of the Alliance, whose decisions make no difference in the story’s outcome.

 

That’s not interesting.

Edited by Nmyownworld
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Dont forget that the galaxy didnt change in the last five galactic years. Empire and republic worlds are conquered but zero zakuul forces are there and the old conflicts are unchanged. The old planets have to change too. Connecting expansions with new timelines with old timelines that overlap is not very smart from any angle.

 

Play normally through the class/planet stories, play through makeb, play through revan/ziost. Ok so far. All makes sense up to that point. But then the chapters start and visiting the planets makes zero sense. Once you start KOTFE, the planets should be updated with new storylines that reflect the main galaxy status. Yes, that requires original content, new instances to explore. Make the old world great again!

 

This way you actually create a working timeline.

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Hey, Eric. Since The Shroud is heavily involved in the HK chapter, is there any chance/plans to add a solo mode for the final mission for both the Shroud and Dreadseed questlines? I know a lot of people have been asking for them, since it is nearly impossible to find a group to finish them, and it would be a good way for new and current players who have never done those quests to do them!

 

Ya please, it's so hard to find a group for the macro's and seeker droids final missions because many people do it once and don't touch them again, would be wonderful to solo them to get them out of they way without spending 2 hours looking for a group of 3-4 on the fleet for them.

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Why not add the seeker droid and Maco quests to the DvL even to encourage people to replay it?

 

On another note, are the development team happy with the current state of the game and the annoyance expressed by their customers in relation to choice not mattering, the story not going anywhere, the lack of repeatable content etc. I make a point of not adding ground content to that despite how many times it was typed in the chat yesterday because I think after so long should you add any group content you would find only 1% of the player base got involved as anyone that plays for group content has long since departed to pastures new. It seems that the development team are oblivious to the poor reception much of Kofte has received which doesn't give much hope for the next season.

Edited by Costello
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Why not add the seeker droid and Maco quests to the DvL even to encourage people to replay it?

 

On another note, are the development team happy with the current state of the game and the annoyance expressed by their customers in relation to choice not mattering, the story not going anywhere, the lack of repeatable content etc. I make a point of not adding ground content to that despite how many times it was typed in the chat yesterday because I think after so long should you add any group content you would find only 1% of the player base got involved as anyone that plays for group content has long since departed to pastures new. It seems that the development team are oblivious to the poor reception much of Kofte has received which doesn't give much hope for the next season.

 

I've been saying this since chapter 13 when we got word of a season 2, KotFE was just a data gathering for season 2 where choices will matter unlike season 1 which was collecting data to throw wrenches at you in KotET from the choices you made. Gravestone loosing it to koth by pissing koth off or if you didn't piss koth off you still have it. Fighting Vaylin will be difficult without the gravestone, there are many data gathering bi-linear sections which can contribute to this.

 

In all choices don't matter as much in season 1 but in season 2 they will, and that is where the story will change drastically. Like with many games, they all start out the same, then to a certain point choices matter and can lead to many consequences.

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Not trying to sound hostile and I can only speak for myself, but I understood this perfectly. I never expected everything to be resolved. I just would have liked at least one thing to be resolved.

 

Your (the writers of KOTFE) experience may vary, but in my experience, the typical "season" cliffhanger format is: Some things are resolved, some things are not resolved, and one or two new things are added that now need to be resolved in the future.

 

I can't think of a single thing that was resolved at the end of chapter 16. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to hear you out on it.

Good post and great points! The ending of Chapter 16 felt very much like the ending of Chapter 9...Alliance is building, people are coming to join us, and the Eternal Throne is our goal...huh?! :confused:

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I've been saying this since chapter 13 when we got word of a season 2, KotFE was just a data gathering for season 2 where choices will matter unlike season 1 which was collecting data to throw wrenches at you in KotET from the choices you made. Gravestone loosing it to koth by pissing koth off or if you didn't piss koth off you still have it. Fighting Vaylin will be difficult without the gravestone, there are many data gathering bi-linear sections which can contribute to this.

 

In all choices don't matter as much in season 1 but in season 2 they will, and that is where the story will change drastically. Like with many games, they all start out the same, then to a certain point choices matter and can lead to many consequences.

 

I've seen you make this point quite a few times now. I'm wondering what gives you such confidence to make such claims and be so sure this is what's going to happen. Earlier this season people where voicing their concerns that the choices you make don't really matter. The devs said not to worry that the choices would start to make a difference in later chapters. Not next season but later chapters this season. Clearly that wasn't the case in any meaningful way.

 

You could very well be right, but so far the only tangible thing we have to go on is their history of delivering on their "choices matter" spiel. I for one see no evidence to suggest that anything will be different next season.

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Not trying to sound hostile and I can only speak for myself, but I understood this perfectly. I never expected everything to be resolved. I just would have liked at least one thing to be resolved.

 

Your (the writers of KOTFE) experience may vary, but in my experience, the typical "season" cliffhanger format is: Some things are resolved, some things are not resolved, and one or two new things are added that now need to be resolved in the future.

 

I can't think of a single thing that was resolved at the end of chapter 16. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to hear you out on it.

 

 

My feelings exactly

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Good post and great points! The ending of Chapter 16 felt very much like the ending of Chapter 9...Alliance is building, people are coming to join us, and the Eternal Throne is our goal...huh?! :confused:

 

Well Valk does now tell us we are "ready". :D So that's one thing that is resolved! :p

 

So nothing in the stream about group content? Or is that not in the wrap up notes?

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In all choices don't matter as much in season 1 but in season 2 they will, and that is where the story will change drastically. Like with many games, they all start out the same, then to a certain point choices matter and can lead to many consequences.

 

Interesting theory :cool:

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Will there be any subscriber rewards between now and the release of KOTET?

 

If you will follow suit and offer subscriber rewards associated with KOTET (like you did by offering rewards for being a subscriber for several months before KotFE was released) but can't announce those rewards until you officially reveal more info on the expansion, will you offer subscriber rewards between now and when more information on KOTET is officially revealed?

FYI, overall, I really enjoyed KotFE and am looking forward to the hk55 bonus chapter and KOTET.

 

We definitely have plans to do subscriber rewards leading up to the expansion but we aren't ready to share those details yet. You can expect more information on that in early October.

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I've seen you make this point quite a few times now. I'm wondering what gives you such confidence to make such claims and be so sure this is what's going to happen. Earlier this season people where voicing their concerns that the choices you make don't really matter. The devs said not to worry that the choices would start to make a difference in later chapters. Not next season but later chapters this season. Clearly that wasn't the case in any meaningful way.

 

You could very well be right, but so far the only tangible thing we have to go on is their history of delivering on their "choices matter" spiel. I for one see no evidence to suggest that anything will be different next season.

 

What really makes me confident is that if i was the story board creator this is what i would exactly be doing. Having Bi-Linear decisions with little consequences in the first half then in the second half having events come up and be different depending on how many of a certain bi-linear decisions where made of that type. Factor everything in and you can have 2-8 different endings of the final half, though if they play on making a season 3 then i would expect to see the choices start to hurt mid way of KotET. You set the bar a bit low to throw people off when the choices they carelessly make build up because they feel choices are meaningless so people are more likely to do action A then B because it seems no matter which choice the result will be the same or near similar.

 

Then once that settles in everything starts to matter throwing people off to the point they are pulling their hair out because of a choice(s) they made in the first 4 chapters they though wouldn't matter because of that precursor that it doesn't matter. Setting the bar low to then blow peoples minds far and above what they were original expecting coming to the climax where the story concludes leaving people wanting to play through the first season again to get everything right.

 

Though i would also have added 1 operation under the lines of something near unrelated or minor like using the Heralds of Zildrog and the serpent in the swamps, having a deadly resurrection taking place for it which interferes with your alliance's efforts because they take a person who is important for some reason and will ritually sacrifice them to revive the serpent. Say 4-5 bosses and a nice side quest, keep the ops players happy while you set the bar low then blow their minds in season 2. But it seams they can only improve PvP or Ops, but not both at the same time.

 

That is why i am confident that choices will matter in season 2, its something i would do in a choice related story, make players guards go down, then surprise them, same in horror movies and games. The more your guard is down the more surprised/scared the viewer/player will be.

Edited by josephxp
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PvP Ranked Season 7

  • Second tier will receive a unique color crystal
  • Top tier will receive a unique mount

 

Are you freaking kidding Bioware? I really hope you're joking. Not even a weapon set? The main motivator for almost all ranked pvpers to keep going into the unbalanced and buggy 4v4 arenas and try their best to get as much rating as possible, and you dont even make the small effort to give them what they so badly want. This is how you'll lose all your hardcore ranked players, at least what's still left of them. But you guys don't really care, do you?

Edited by AmarantKando
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The idea that anything will be resolved in the next season seems to rely on hope more than what we have seen with Kofte.

 

Look at how chapter 16 has been advertised:

 

The Ultimate Showdown with Arcann beings today:

 

It gets better

 

Confront Arcann and his powerful fleet in a full scale assault that will determine the fate of the galaxy!

 

and even better

 

Against all odds, players must risk everything for the chance to defeat Arcann and the Eternal Empire once and for all!

 

Defeat Arcann and the Eternal Empire once and for all, does anyone feel the VICTORY that was portrayed lived up to that. Does anyone feel that it was even a possibility that they would have been able to defeat Arcann if they had just selected that kill option in the duel or in the star fighter. Or that they could have taken on the eternal empire and it wasn't always just going to be handed to Vaylin, that they could have achieved what was advertised.

 

Cause personally reading the write up I'm all for a stunning conclusion to Kofte or at least the Arcann part of it. Only then I realize I've played the chapter and was left wondering what the last 16 chapters were all about. It seemed to be understanding a new way to use the force which I don't understand as we are even celebrating a Light vs Dark Event and it turns out Yoda was dead wrong when he taught Luke about the nature of the force. It should have been Light vs Dark vs New way to use the force that flies in the face of everything Star Wars canon has to say about the force.

 

So what evidence do we have that the next season, choice that had no effect when they were made or shortly after will play out a year later when I may not even remember that I made that choice cause its so historic. There will be a cut of point where your not going to realize your choice mattered cause you wont remember making it.

Edited by Costello
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We definitely have plans to do subscriber rewards leading up to the expansion but we aren't ready to share those details yet. You can expect more information on that in early October.

During the live stream you guys left it to chat to pick among 3 items to be awarded to the stream as a reward. For whatever it is worth, I think that having less a less specific theme and giving us redemptions options would be a good route to go. The more we truly a desire a reward each month, the more appealing the reward system will be; having a choice among 3 items makes you more likely to hit something a player will want.

 

Just my 2 credits.

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I think the problem with the KotFE story is that the epic voyage and cliffhanger is Arcann’s, not the player’s.

 

Spoilers for all the KotFE chapters below.

 

Arcann:

 

His conflict begins in the KotFE trailer introducing Thexan and himself. It continues in KotFE as Arcann tries to kill his father, and dominates the Republic and Empire. Hubris prevents Arcann from taking steps to deal with the Alliance. Finally, he moves against the Alliance, and is met with defeat. Arcann loses the Eternal Throne, his position as ruler of Zakuul, and his sister. But, Arcann reconnects with his long-estranged mother. The story: to be continued in the next season.

 

 

That’s epic.

 

=====

 

The player’s character:

 

Fight Star Troopers

- Captured

- Rescued

Fight Star Troopers

- Set up as figurehead without any choice in the matter.

Fight Star Troopers

Fight Star Troopers

Fight Star Troopers

- Has minimal input about Alliance, and that small input is irrelevant.

Fight Star Troopers

- Has another fight with Arcann (previous fight on Asylum). The fight ends as a loss (fire on shuttle, Arcann and Senya escape), or at best as a draw (don’t fire on shuttle, Arcann and Senya escape).

 

This is not epic.

 

======

 

Valkorion

 

So far, Valkorion is a plot device to justify squishing non-Force using classes into KotFE.

 

=====

The KotFE story ends with:

 

Zakuulans and SCORPIO having all the juicy, gee-what-happens-next, story. Arcann, the deposed Emperor. Senya, the on her own side screw everyone else, mother and Knight. Vaylin the nutjob (but very interesting) new ruler of Zakuul. SCORPIO, the who knows what she’s (it’s) up to Alliance traitor. Valkorion, the ghost who is … there. And, maybe Koth with the stolen Gravestone.

 

That’s interesting.

 

======

 

 

The Outlander, a puppet figurehead of the Alliance, whose decisions make no difference in the story’s outcome.

 

That’s not interesting.

 

Please.

Please.

PLEASE.

 

Listen to this guy - he gets it, he's summed up everything that was wrong with KotFE.

 

It's like the writers are writing it exclusively for their new favourite: Arcann.

 

When the ONLY favourite they should be considering is the Player Character.

 

I really, really, really, do not give a damn about how awesome Arcann is, or how epic his story is. Because he's a new invention, an interloper in an established Intellectual Property.

 

You could, just about, get away with this type of thing with Revan because a) most of us will have played the Revan part through at least one of the KotOR games, and probably both, and b) because of those games Revan has an established presence, a history, and a legacy within SW universe.

 

Arcann doesn't.

 

Whichever class we play as we are the extreme pinnacle of what can be achieved within the Star Wars setting. Emperor's Wrath, Barsen'thor, etc. We are the best of the best of the best, and we get tossed around like a rag doll by a pretender to a power they do not deserve and who will, sooner or later, be nothing more than another footnote in the list of foes we vanquished.

 

Make the story about the Player Character.

Make the decisions that matter be those the Player Character makes. #SWTORChoicesDoNotMatter

 

We are tired of being a bit-part extra in Arcann's story.

 

All The Best

Edited by DarthSpuds
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What really makes me confident is that if i was the story board creator this is what i would exactly be doing. Having Bi-Linear decisions with little consequences in the first half then in the second half having events come up and be different depending on how many of a certain bi-linear decisions where made of that type. Factor everything in and you can have 2-8 different endings of the final half, though if they play on making a season 3 then i would expect to see the choices start to hurt mid way of KotET. You set the bar a bit low to throw people off when the choices they carelessly make build up because they feel choices are meaningless so people are more likely to do action A then B because it seems no matter which choice the result will be the same or near similar.

 

Then once that settles in everything starts to matter throwing people off to the point they are pulling their hair out because of a choice(s) they made in the first 4 chapters they though wouldn't matter because of that precursor that it doesn't matter. Setting the bar low to then blow peoples minds far and above what they were original expecting coming to the climax where the story concludes leaving people wanting to play through the first season again to get everything right.

 

Though i would also have added 1 operation under the lines of something near unrelated or minor like using the Heralds of Zildrog and the serpent in the swamps, having a deadly resurrection taking place for it which interferes with your alliance's efforts because they take a person who is important for some reason and will ritually sacrifice them to revive the serpent. Say 4-5 bosses and a nice side quest, keep the ops players happy while you set the bar low then blow their minds in season 2. But it seams they can only improve PvP or Ops, but not both at the same time.

 

That is why i am confident that choices will matter in season 2, its something i would do in a choice related story, make players guards go down, then surprise them, same in horror movies and games. The more your guard is down the more surprised/scared the viewer/player will be.

 

Well, like I said, you may be right. I just don't see evidence to support that theory. I feel you are giving them more benefit of the doubt than they have earned. Hopefully you are right but I just don't believe in this dev team anymore.

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  • The team is looking through feedback on the new pack opening, and looking for places to improve. If you want to speed up the experience you can spacebar through the animation.

 

-eric

Works for a single pack and thanks for the hint!

 

For a crate I'd suggest using this method:

 

Here's how to open the packs without "wasting time" with the new animations:

  1. Hit Pack Viewer gold button
  2. Select the pack
  3. Click open
  4. Click next pack until you are done.
  5. Check results in the new UI

Edited by Deewe
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Good post and great points! The ending of Chapter 16 felt very much like the ending of Chapter 9...Alliance is building, people are coming to join us, and the Eternal Throne is our goal...huh?! :confused:

Thanks.

 

And hey, maybe the real twist is that we never left carbonite and we're stuck in a looping, matrix-style dream sequence. :p

 

With Kai Zykken running the simulation, that tricksy devil. We'll have to confront him at the end and he'll be all like, "Hey, uh, yeah. Sorry... wasn't me! I didn't do that at all. Um, you didn't... didn't want to be... in a simulation, huh? Oh! I forgot to turn that thing off. Right. Simulation. I left the control room in the other room... uhhh, please don't kill me. Here is... a blaster, that I found. That you can have. I don't need it. It's yours! Just don't... please don't point it at me, alright! I have some blue milk too, in the other room, which I... never mind, I left it... at the store. So, this is not.. awkward.. at all. Friends, right?"

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Dear Bioware-crew, if you want me to remain a subscriber during off-season, give me one token per month which I can exchange for any CM item of my choice (bind on pickup is OK, armor sets count as one item). I don't know if there are others who would like that, but I would be satisfied at least.

 

And if you could please do me a story-favor: Make Arcann not appear again. Let me believe that I hit the ship bad enough that they stranded somewhere in space and died arm in arm in nowhere. Or let HK hunt down Arcann in the bonus chapter and get rid of him. That would be acceptable, too.

 

Arcann is not a hero to me, he is the despicable evil. I don't want you to tell his story. This guy disgusts me, I feel no sympathy at all for his tragedy and I, as a purely light side player, wanted and want nothing more than to finish this guy for good.

 

Thank you.

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