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The Sith Empire and the movie era Republic/Empire's symbol

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Sith Empire and the movie era Republic/Empire's symbol

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
05.02.2016 , 11:01 PM | #1
Why is the Sith Empire's symbol so similar to the movie era Republic/Empire? Is it because Bioware wants it to resemble the Galactic Empire, or did the Empire become part of the Republic later instead of getting annihilated?
http://www.swtor.com/r/5trH8B

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Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
05.02.2016 , 11:26 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Why is the Sith Empire's symbol so similar to the movie era Republic/Empire? Is it because Bioware wants it to resemble the Galactic Empire, or did the Empire become part of the Republic later instead of getting annihilated?
The first one. There's no good lore reason for so many aspects of the SWTOR setting to be so similar to the Empire and Republic of 3,600 years later, regardless of how the war turns out. It's meant to pull in casual fans.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

Sanguinal's Avatar


Sanguinal
05.05.2016 , 11:13 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Why is the Sith Empire's symbol so similar to the movie era Republic/Empire? Is it because Bioware wants it to resemble the Galactic Empire, or did the Empire become part of the Republic later instead of getting annihilated?
The in universe explanation is that the Galactic Empire is an empire controlled by the last heir to the Sith Order. Star Destroyers, TIE fighters etc, were deliberately designed in traditional Sith styles and much of the aesthetic of Palpatine's empire is similar to the Sith Empire's as a way to stamp their almost extinct culture back onto the galaxy.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
05.05.2016 , 11:59 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Sanguinal View Post
The in universe explanation is that the Galactic Empire is an empire controlled by the last heir to the Sith Order. Star Destroyers, TIE fighters etc, were deliberately designed in traditional Sith styles and much of the aesthetic of Palpatine's empire is similar to the Sith Empire's as a way to stamp their almost extinct culture back onto the galaxy.
Not really.

The Republic's emblem in SWTOR is a crest similar to that of the Rebel Alliance in the OG trilogy and the New Republic in the EU. The Republic's emblem in the prequel trilogy looks nothing like it; it's this roundel. The Empire's emblem has a clear symbolic connection to the prequel trilogy Republic's one, which makes sense, because the Empire's founding myth was that it was a reform of the Republic to ensure peace and security.

So it's not about Palpatine changing the symbol to look more Sithy, it's about the Republic having a symbol that apparently comes from this sui generis Sith Empire that tried to destroy it millennia ago. (The CIS logo also bears a distinct resemblance to the Sith Empire's one.) That's the dumb part.

The obvious answer to all of this is that the Sith Empire's emblem is supposed to be similar to the Imperial emblem of the films to make things easier on the casual fans. Same with the Sith Empire's uniforms, its infantry body armor designs, its warship design, and so on. Lore explanations really aren't as important as that.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
05.05.2016 , 01:26 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Not really.

The Republic's emblem in SWTOR is a crest similar to that of the Rebel Alliance in the OG trilogy and the New Republic in the EU. The Republic's emblem in the prequel trilogy looks nothing like it; it's this roundel. The Empire's emblem has a clear symbolic connection to the prequel trilogy Republic's one, which makes sense, because the Empire's founding myth was that it was a reform of the Republic to ensure peace and security.

So it's not about Palpatine changing the symbol to look more Sithy, it's about the Republic having a symbol that apparently comes from this sui generis Sith Empire that tried to destroy it millennia ago. (The CIS logo also bears a distinct resemblance to the Sith Empire's one.) That's the dumb part.

The obvious answer to all of this is that the Sith Empire's emblem is supposed to be similar to the Imperial emblem of the films to make things easier on the casual fans. Same with the Sith Empire's uniforms, its infantry body armor designs, its warship design, and so on. Lore explanations really aren't as important as that.
There actually is a lore explanation. The Republic symbol originally had eight spokes, being a Bendu symbol. While the Sith Empire's six-spoked hexagon appears to have been a coincidence, the alteration of the Republic symbol from eight spokes to six only happened near the end of the Clone Wars, and appears to have been a subtle flourish from Palpatine.

Audoucet's Avatar


Audoucet
05.05.2016 , 05:33 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Why is the Sith Empire's symbol so similar to the movie era Republic/Empire? Is it because Bioware wants it to resemble the Galactic Empire, or did the Empire become part of the Republic later instead of getting annihilated?
For the same reasons that the Republic's symbol looks like the Rebellion's symbol even though it shouldn't. Fan-service.

Diviciacus's Avatar


Diviciacus
05.05.2016 , 07:08 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
There actually is a lore explanation. The Republic symbol originally had eight spokes, being a Bendu symbol. While the Sith Empire's six-spoked hexagon appears to have been a coincidence, the alteration of the Republic symbol from eight spokes to six only happened near the end of the Clone Wars, and appears to have been a subtle flourish from Palpatine.
I didn't know that. Interesting. I had always guessed that the Republic and Empire of TOR's time somehow merge (military victory for the Sith, but political/ideological victory for the Republic... somehow). That would create a Republic with Empire-eqsue technology and iconography, but keep the same political system (and the Jedi).

Clearly I'm a derp.
Nonne mei fratres congruitis nobis nostram cruore ferroque humum recipienda esse aut Imperium Aeternum quae omnia speremus peregerimusque vere perdat?
Conquering the Darkest Places, the ongoing misadventures of a Sith doing what's right by her.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
05.06.2016 , 10:17 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
There actually is a lore explanation. The Republic symbol originally had eight spokes, being a Bendu symbol. While the Sith Empire's six-spoked hexagon appears to have been a coincidence, the alteration of the Republic symbol from eight spokes to six only happened near the end of the Clone Wars, and appears to have been a subtle flourish from Palpatine.
Good find, but that explains everything about the symbol except for the complaint: the part that you described as "appears to be a coincidence".

It's also kind of like the Victorian British Empire deciding to use the dharmachakra as a national emblem, but whatever.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
05.06.2016 , 10:44 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Good find, but that explains everything about the symbol except for the complaint: the part that you described as "appears to be a coincidence".

It's also kind of like the Victorian British Empire deciding to use the dharmachakra as a national emblem, but whatever.
Well, for that part, I'd credit parallel evolution. The eight spokes and closed circle in the Republic/Bendu symbol indicate galactic unity around a center point; if I had to guess, the broken hexagon in the Sith Empire symbol also represents the galaxy as a whole, and the six arrow-headed spokes from the center there represent the outward expansion of the Sith Empire into all it surveys.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
05.06.2016 , 11:15 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Diviciacus View Post
I didn't know that. Interesting. I had always guessed that the Republic and Empire of TOR's time somehow merge (military victory for the Sith, but political/ideological victory for the Republic... somehow). That would create a Republic with Empire-eqsue technology and iconography, but keep the same political system (and the Jedi).

Clearly I'm a derp.
The Sith Empire can't win in the end. It's already established lore that the Republic doesn't fall during this period. Some sort of merger following a Sith military victory would change the nature of the Republic, and there wouldn't be continuity between the pre-SWTOR Republic and the Republic from the Clone Wars era. The Jedi and Sith also cannot coexist.

A Sith military victory is also extremely implausible following the events of SWTOR's class stories. The Empire is said to have lost 10% of it's entire military in the Corellian debacle. For comparison, that's a higher loss percentage than what the German Army suffered at Stalingrad in the Second World War. (7%)

After Corellia and the war with Zakuul, conquering the Republic should not be in the cards for the Empire.

Also given that the Sith Empire won the last war between the two powers in the lore, it's very likely that this one is going to be won by the Republic.