Are ops/raids outdated?

This could be learned with 1 fp run.



EQ1 is from a different era, it's niche compare to later ones.


Its isnt's? How many people are still doing the EC/SNV/DF/DP HM/NIM ops compare to 3.0? There are significantly less pugs are doing them now and many raiders have left. You must be joking if you ignore this.

It's not a small percentage in the END GAME content and it took a lot of resources to make, especially when we are taling about PVE. Why shouldn't we adjust very old content to casual players when the raiders have moved on to new content? Why do you want to leave them for dead without the majority even experiencing them?

WHY are you suggesting that old nightmare content should still be kept from people who had never experienced them, when the raiders had moved on? To keep the "pride" with the cost of wasted, dead content?


It's not "SWTOR has chosen not to" but "SWTOR could not offer enough new content so it could only stick with old ones to keep the challenge"



Yes, that's why people don't want to waste time on drama.

There will be, and by that time, the current "success" of the EV/KP HM will either take a heel faced turn or the new content would not grab people's attention.

Oh so the group finder needs an overhaul? Seems fair enough.

YOU are only running it for gear, don't speak for others being that no one here is supporting your opinion.


None of that is proof, it's opinion.


Unfounded opinion.


Unfounded opinion.

They weren't NIM if you were godmode, they just had the NIM title from the past. This has been fixed.

Where is this proof?


NIM isn't for pugging, SM is. If poeople want to try pug NIM cool , power to them but it's designed to be incredibly difficult hence "nightmare mode".


That's not proof either, that's more unfounded opinion.


Where?


What does HM/NIM have to do with giving people tactical modes or down leveling content? You want to make easier than SM content so stop talking about HM/NIM - it has no relationship to your concept other than your greed for wanting drops you aren't good enough to get yourself.

I'm not asking anyone anything, burden of proof is on you.


It's not ... it's nightmare mode.

What only works?

Doesn't prove this is the reason they were the most successful though ... prove that's the reason they succeeded and not just a thing they do but are successful for other reasons.

You and yourself sure.

Honestly I have absolutely no clue why anyone who doesn't like GSF would keep playing this game.

GSF is most unique thing that has ever happened to TOR. People who discover it have huge amounts of fun. Most importantly, they have kind of fun they'd not find in any other MMO. Which other game lets you play a Pilot of a Starfighter?

Besides GSF pilots I look around and all these people and don't have slightest of clue what makes them pick SW:TOR over MMos that actually have new MMO content in live dev.

Notable exception, to the above.. social aspects that have everything to do with people and nothing to do with game as such. Being in awesome guilds, RPs, friends, etc.

I am not saying it should be kept from them, I am saying they need to "experience" it the way it was intended to be - with it being a challenge. How does facerolling nightmare content give an "experience"? If you are facerolling through it, you do not experience it at all. You might as well be doing story mode at that point.

Which still brings back my original question: Why just go after scaled raids and not attack scaling in general? If it is for the "experience" you should be wanting the rollback of all scaling. Otherwise you just want access to raid loot made easier.

^^this

Yes, especially now.


Take out the 208/216/220 gears plus the data crystals from the ops and let's see how many people will keep on.


It is, you just refuse to believe it.


And THIS is what it should have been, do you even understand? Old NIM ops will simply die and become a waste if it keeps the difficulty when its era had past and new content had come out. Raiders would move on and casuals won't bother to try it.

Look at previous pages. You are simply ignoring what was going on in the game and simply state they are just opinions.


NIM WASN'T for pugging, they WERE designed to be very hard. When new ops comes out with new xpc, the raiders won't stay at it, they are going to move on. Casuals would stay away, thus nightmare ops becomes dead ops. Only a very small percent of people had experienced them and they had moved on, people like you still want it to be kept away by the rest such a pity.


Why shouldn't it become down leveling, when its era is LONG GONE? Raiders are getting bored of old content and left, they would have moved on new content if there had been any rather than stay on this. Pugs and casuals aren't going to kill themselves for it. Thus it went dead and becomes a huge waste. Isn't it easy to understand?

It's nightmare mode doesn't mean it always have to stay on this difficulty otherwise it simply dies.

The popularity of EV/KP HM

Let me make it clear to you.

A successful MMO had to grab players, and it would have been utterly stupid if a large part of the endgame content isn't going to be tasted by the majority FOREVER, casual players are what keep the games going and no successful MMO didn't do a good job to please them. Sure there should be difficult content and challenge for raiders, but it doesn't mean it had to stick there even after 2-3 years of its release ,after the raiders had moved on new content/left because there is nothing new. That's a waste and insult to casuals and aren't gonna keep the interest of the raiders.

Why are you still missing it? If you keep the difficulty forever, casual people are not going to do it because it was designed for raid guilds, even they had to spend a lot of wipes to make it, especially the nightmares. Casual people aren't gonna try this, something they could not do unless they change themselves to raiders and spend a lot of effort on it, even if they do they might not start from these old ops but the new ones. So if you keep the difficulty after their era is gone. What's gonna happen?

Raiders would spend their full effort on the new content rather than keep interest on the old ones, many of them, or most of them would leave and get a better raid game if there is no new content. It's not fun to keep running the same thing for 2-3 years when other games are offering new content.

Casuals are going to stay away from these ops like before, because the difficulty is not designed for them at all, trying it would only cause death and frustration, Even if they want challenge they would try the new ones, if there is no new ops they are going to stick with their SM/some HM ops.

So these nightmare ops would be abandoned by both sides. It's going to die, simple. Sure they once were designed by Hardcore raiders only, but that era is gone, most of those people were either gone or had moved on. WHY should it still stay that hard to keep it from the rest of the people and pretty much meet its death? THIS, is why MMO content got a lifespan. I'm not sure why is it so hard to explain. Other than possible "I've beat that content with so many wipes and effort, you NOOBS should never be able to touch on it" logic.

Yes, that's what casuals want to experience, not the nightmare difficulty but the content itself. Is it hard to understand?

So what?!

Not everything in this game is made for casuals. The NiM raids are the same story, same everything besides difficulty. Casuals can do the SM versions, if they want a challenge they can do the HM versions. But NiM has and will always be the challenge it is, hence NIGHTMARE...

Not everything in this game has to be brought down to the lowest common denominator. They have made storymode OPs faceroll easy for the casuals so they can "experience the story" like they like to rail on about, there is no reason to remove a difficulty setting, or dumb it down...That is what the SM and HM are for.

If they are just interested in story, then that is what SM is for. There is no difference in story from NiM and SM.

So it becomes DEAD CONTENT after the raiders moved on new content. So what? A DEAD CONTENT which nobody does is pretty much the worst state of a content.

Casuals want to try NIM and beat what they once couldn't beat, what's wrong for that? Yeah, not everything was brought for everyone, but everything is designed for a certain group and every group don't just stay on the samething forever. Once the raiders have moved on, these content should be adjusted for other people to run and have fun rather than let it die. In WOW they even nerf the old raid when new ones come out to let everyone be able to "follow up".

There always are elite content for people, but it doesn't mean every elite content must always stay at their difficulty, or they would simply wither after the group that was originally targeted, had moved on to new ops or left because there is none, it's a MMO content's lifespan. I don't know why people are keep ignoring it.

It's quite simple now. Some people here think the OLD HM/NIM should still stay so hard to keep it from casuals, even though many of the elite raiders, the group that was targeted during its release, had either moved on or got bored and left due to it being very old content. They'd rather to let it die rather than make some use and fun to the majority, who wasn't able to taste it for years.