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Why was it decided that everything endgame being a dps race was a good idea?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why was it decided that everything endgame being a dps race was a good idea?

BeeblesTV's Avatar


BeeblesTV
12.28.2011 , 11:59 PM | #21
So you admitted in your post that you aren't performing well.

Why should bosses die for you again?

Lord_Itharius's Avatar


Lord_Itharius
12.29.2011 , 12:08 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by BeeblesTV View Post
So you admitted in your post that you aren't performing well.

Why should bosses die for you again?
Umm because Bioware hasn't added a frikin combat log or interface mods, so we can't tell how much dps we're doing? It's possible that some ACs have too low dps to even beat the enrage timers, even when played right, like vengeance juggs, for instance. We just don't know, and we can't know without damage meters. So either they need to add combat parsing, or they need to get rid of enrage mechanics.

There is no way to improve dps when you can't see whether you're improving. It's like a teacher trying to grade a class with no tests or assignments.
"can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out." - battlebug

NoiseTankXIII's Avatar


NoiseTankXIII
12.29.2011 , 12:12 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Itharius View Post

There is no way to improve dps when you can't see whether you're improving. It's like a teacher trying to grade a class with no tests or assignments.
I think a better analogy is trying to pass a class without writing utensils. Theoretically possible but really making it harder on yourself for no reason.

Ephi's Avatar


Ephi
12.29.2011 , 12:18 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Itharius View Post
Umm because Bioware hasn't added a frikin combat log or interface mods, so we can't tell how much dps we're doing? It's possible that some ACs have too low dps to even beat the enrage timers, even when played right, like vengeance juggs, for instance. We just don't know, and we can't know without damage meters. So either they need to add combat parsing, or they need to get rid of enrage mechanics.

There is no way to improve dps when you can't see whether you're improving. It's like a teacher trying to grade a class with no tests or assignments.
the thing is, even when bosses enrage they are still killable. we get enrages every time we fight a boss. every. time. but we still kill it, its not hard at all. stop crying that the game is too hard and step up your game.

Lord_Itharius's Avatar


Lord_Itharius
12.29.2011 , 12:21 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephi View Post
the thing is, even when bosses enrage they are still killable. we get enrages every time we fight a boss. every. time. but we still kill it, its not hard at all. stop crying that the game is too hard and step up your game.
The game isn't too hard. It's cryptic.

Cryptic (adj): mysterious in meaning; puzzling; ambiguous

The game wouldn't be cryptic if we could see combat logs detailing how much damage we're doing and what killed us. Then tank and spank wouldn't be "hard" again for the first time in 6 years.

Go play WoW hard modes again before you cry panda land and you'll see how dps meters cause mechanics to actually require more movement and raid awareness, making the game more fun. Granted, in WoW by the end of Cataclysm, those mechanics amount to pressing a button to avoid raid damage, but it's still better than tank and spank with random enrage mechanics and no way to fix the problem except by replacing BOTH dps.
"can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out." - battlebug

Ephi's Avatar


Ephi
12.29.2011 , 12:27 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Itharius View Post
The game isn't too hard. It's cryptic.

Cryptic (adj): mysterious in meaning; puzzling; ambiguous

The game wouldn't be cryptic if we could see combat logs detailing how much damage we're doing and what killed us. Then tank and spank wouldn't be "hard" again for the first time in 6 years.

Go play WoW hard modes again before you cry panda land and you'll see how dps meters cause mechanics to actually require more movement and raid awareness, making the game more fun. Granted, in WoW by the end of Cataclysm, those mechanics amount to pressing a button to avoid raid damage, but it's still better than tank and spank with random enrage mechanics and no way to fix the problem except by replacing BOTH dps.
well you very well may get a combat log in the future, however bioware has specifically stated that they will not allow third party interface mods into the game. if they allow addons they'll impliment those themselves.

Airees's Avatar


Airees
12.29.2011 , 12:32 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DragoVaughn View Post
ok, you don't see the point, when it's a four person group for a flashpoint and two are dps with the best gear possible to get at 50 right when you could hit 50 (ie correllia gear), yet we're doing the best we can and still hit enrage timers on the first hard flashpoint you're to do to get gear, then something is wrong.
Maybe you should gear up through lvl 50 dailies and normal instances before rushing to hard-modes ? While there certainly are enrage timers in the game atm that are poorly tuned, the Black Talon ones are not. They are completely doable, although as I posted in my hard-mode summary thread about a week ago they are probably too hard for people who are new to MMOs.

Also, claiming you need a parser etc to figure out effective prioritizations/rotations is just pure BS. While you probably won't be able to push your class to the absolute max, it should be fairly easy to reach 95+% of your potential.

As for the whole "enrage timers are stupid" argument, without enrage timers not a single one of the hard-mode fights in this game would actually be hard. Almost every group will have a dpser that is able to throw out some heals or shields on the side, and if they didn't have to worry about putting out dps that would completely trivialize the content. And it's not like they can tune the content to require that either, as it would lead to a flood of complaining about dpsers having to heal.

DragoVaughn's Avatar


DragoVaughn
12.29.2011 , 12:34 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by BeeblesTV View Post
So you admitted in your post that you aren't performing well.

Why should bosses die for you again?
Thanks but like others said, how am I to know how to improve? pop relics each time they're up do dps rotation, repeat, move when necessary. Doing the best I can atm and enrage timers just pop no matter what, only thing I can improve is gear, which is impossible if I can't get past the enrage timers, endless cycle of "just freaking pvp till I get champion gear so I can actually do hard modes"

Niyenna's Avatar


Niyenna
12.29.2011 , 09:05 AM | #29
Enrage timers are just plain lazy design. Their are so many examples of good encounters which don't use enrage timers that it boggles my mind that these devs feel the need to use them.

CericME's Avatar


CericME
12.29.2011 , 09:23 AM | #30
Personally not a fan of Enrage timers.

I do like when a boss will heal themselves after a while meaning that if you say roll into a flashpoint with 1 tank 1 dps and 2 straight healers your just wasting your time.

Enrage timers are a crutch used when you can't obtain an ending naturally. I'm actually a proponent of the opposite and have a boss hit like a truck towards the beginning because that makes sense. As the fight goes on we're all worn down.

Maybe have the boss joined by adds. How about having the environment itself be a factor in the fight. Instead of the boss suddenly becoming super, which really makes no sense, have the platform your on start to degrade from the figthing.

Regardless, the first max level Flashpoint should be doable in Max Lvl - 2 gear. The next one should require lvl 50 Gear plus a few Flashpoint pieces.