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TX_Angel's Avatar


TX_Angel
01.27.2016 , 02:57 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I do not think changing class (AC) should be allowed. I think the devs were right when they designed the classes so that no single character has access to tanking skills, healing skills and DPS skills AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time.
And I think that decision in 2016 is no longer the correct one and it should be changed.

The days of complex MMOs with 20 alts and strict limits are gone. Adaptive armor is a good example of such a change. It used to be that "heavy armor" looked it and could only be worn by some classes, now your Jedi can look like a trooper and your trooper can dress like a Jedi.

Why? Because it is a GAME, and player happiness is really all that matters.
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TX_Angel's Avatar


TX_Angel
01.27.2016 , 03:00 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I forgot that YOU were solely responsible for this game, and that YOU know better than the devs, and only YOUR opinion counts.

You are right. My opinion matters not one iota.
Your opinion matters, and you're entitled to your opinion and viewpoint.

What I think you're missing is that you were in the majority viewpoint pre-4.0, but that a lot of people see that post 4.0, those viewpoints have changed.

You're welcome to keep posting, but have you not noticed that many of the old voices are silent?

Times change, things change, and this can be one of those...
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TX_Angel's Avatar


TX_Angel
01.27.2016 , 03:01 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
You want "proof" that AC's are not simply subclasses? Go check your guild roster. How many characters over level 10 have Trooper or Bounty hunter listed as their CLASS? How many characters above level 10 have their CLASS listed as commando, vanguard, mercenary or powertech?
You're being Pedantic...
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
01.27.2016 , 03:19 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by TX_Angel View Post
And I think that decision in 2016 is no longer the correct one and it should be changed.

The days of complex MMOs with 20 alts and strict limits are gone. Adaptive armor is a good example of such a change. It used to be that "heavy armor" looked it and could only be worn by some classes, now your Jedi can look like a trooper and your trooper can dress like a Jedi.

Why? Because it is a GAME, and player happiness is really all that matters.
We can voice our opinions. We can even agree to disagree.

As I said, in the end, the ONLY opinion that matters is that of the DEVS.

It would seem that the devs still think the original design intent was the correct one, given their total and complete silence on this matter, and the fact that we cannot change classes.

TX_Angel's Avatar


TX_Angel
01.27.2016 , 03:31 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
We can voice our opinions. We can even agree to disagree.
True.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
As I said, in the end, the ONLY opinion that matters is that of the DEVS.

It would seem that the devs still think the original design intent was the correct one, given their total and complete silence on this matter, and the fact that we cannot change classes.
Well, actually in the end, the only opinion that matters is the player base, since if they don't like the game and leave, the devs will be out of a job.

That being said, regarding the complete and total silence... remind me again how many people even asked for level sync, much less a single post from the devs on it in 4 years?

How about asking for companions to be all roles with no gear?

Lots of things have just "happened" without a word in advance from the devs, so that isn't the end all, be all of answers.

It won't be true, right until it is. If it shows up one day without notice, so be it. If not, then so be it.
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Gwena's Avatar


Gwena
01.27.2016 , 05:16 PM | #146
I think the OP makes some good points. Since we are now able to buy a brand new level 60 character of any class we want (and let us be honest, those last 5 levels are very fast), would it be so much of a stretch to want to buy an AC change for an existing character, especially if it was also a fairly pricey CM item? I hope the devs will consider it.

Granted, I admit that this is something that I personally want. I have a level 65 Sith Assassin that I like very much. But often, I wish this character was a Sorcerer, as whenever I contemplate grouping or doing more challenging content I am reminded of how melee DPS is not my best role. I honestly wasn't expecting to like the Inquisitor class as much as I did (in terms of non-combat factors); had I realized how much the character would grow on me, I would have chosen the AC I knew I'd be more comfortable with instead of the "eh, this could be fun for a change" one. xD

I would happily reroll and either buy a level 60 token or even level up a Sorcerer from scratch. But over the time I've played this character I've accumulated a lot of items that are now very expensive or even impossible to replace. What was a 950K mount is now rarely listed on the GTN. The 200K gloves are now 800K. The weapon I got from a heroic is no longer available. The dye I picked up for 300K is now over a million. Etc, etc. Not to mention companions and Alliance! Point being, the leveling would be the easy part if I wanted to remake my Assassin as a Sorcerer.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
01.27.2016 , 05:19 PM | #147
/Signed

Hope devs are looking into this OP.

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
01.27.2016 , 05:47 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by TX_Angel View Post
You're being Pedantic...
That doesn't equate to being wrong.
Let this sink in, this game is Free to Play, boasts one of the most popular IPs on the planet and yet 76.47% of the servers are empty.

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TX_Angel
01.27.2016 , 06:12 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by ekwalizer View Post
That doesn't equate to being wrong.
No, it doesn't, but it doesn't make him right either...

He is being very narrow in his view to try and extract a defense for his position while ignoring everything else around it.

---

Pre-4.0, I understood why some people didn't want AC changes. After all, people who instantly become a tank when they used to be a healer would now queue for stuff and derp around, having no idea what they are doing.

Post 4.0, that is happening anyway, thanks to instant level 60 toons. Even those toons leveled the "normal" way, thanks to 6x XP and level sync, people are getting to 65 in 2 days without knowing what they are doing anyway, so that is beside the point now.

You could argue that 12x XP killed it in the first place, but if it did, then 4.0 just beat the horse completely flat.

The challenge is to avoid a circular arrangement, which his points become very quickly.

"The design intent"
"The devs opinion/vision"
"Here is the exact wording of one thing, thus my point is correct"

And so on...

Much of the reasons to not have AC, such as people being roles they know nothing about, has been lost to post-4.0. So what are the new reasons? The only reason can't be "because devs that no longer work here decided in 2009 that you couldn't change AC".

That isn't a reason, that is the sort of defense you use when you no longer have a rational defense. Lots of stuff used to be one way, then time passed, and another way happens.

He has been asked multiple times why he cares so much about other player's being able to change AC, and the only thing he has is "well that wasn't the design intent" and "the devs haven't said anything about it, so that is a ringing endorsement of my views"

You know what else the devs did? They said before 4.0 launched that the BSG packs would be on the CM PERMANENTLY. It turns out that in dev world, that word actually means "about 2 months or so".

The devs also said "we won't again go 14 months between operations". Yea, guess what, we did!

So I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in anything they post here, it is all subject to change on a whim.

---

So we come back to, "why would anyone be against it at this point, in 2016?" I haven't seen a reason posted that it would cause any kind of harm. I do see a number of people posting that they would like it and are willing to pay for it.

I can think of 2 toons I have that I'd be willing to change their AC on. Not because I don't have the other AC, but because of their armor, pets, etc. I have 3 commandos and 1 vanguard, I really, really don't like the vanguard AC, so I'd like to change that into a 4th commando. I like the name, I like the armor, it is an old toon that I haven't played for a long time, she is wearing armor that no longer exists in the game.

How does my changing her to a commando hurt anyone?
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ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
01.27.2016 , 06:48 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by TX_Angel View Post
No, it doesn't, but it doesn't make him right either...

He is being very narrow in his view to try and extract a defense for his position while ignoring everything else around it.
---
Pre-4.0, I understood why some people didn't want AC changes. After all, people who instantly become a tank when they used to be a healer would now queue for stuff and derp around, having no idea what they are doing.

Post 4.0, that is happening anyway, thanks to instant level 60 toons. Even those toons leveled the "normal" way, thanks to 6x XP and level sync, people are getting to 65 in 2 days without knowing what they are doing anyway, so that is beside the point now.

You could argue that 12x XP killed it in the first place, but if it did, then 4.0 just beat the horse completely flat.

The challenge is to avoid a circular arrangement, which his points become very quickly.

"The design intent"
"The devs opinion/vision"
"Here is the exact wording of one thing, thus my point is correct"

And so on...

Much of the reasons to not have AC, such as people being roles they know nothing about, has been lost to post-4.0. So what are the new reasons? The only reason can't be "because devs that no longer work here decided in 2009 that you couldn't change AC".

That isn't a reason, that is the sort of defense you use when you no longer have a rational defense. Lots of stuff used to be one way, then time passed, and another way happens.

He has been asked multiple times why he cares so much about other player's being able to change AC, and the only thing he has is "well that wasn't the design intent" and "the devs haven't said anything about it, so that is a ringing endorsement of my views"

You know what else the devs did? They said before 4.0 launched that the BSG packs would be on the CM PERMANENTLY. It turns out that in dev world, that word actually means "about 2 months or so".

The devs also said "we won't again go 14 months between operations". Yea, guess what, we did!

So I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in anything they post here, it is all subject to change on a whim.

---

So we come back to, "why would anyone be against it at this point, in 2016?" I haven't seen a reason posted that it would cause any kind of harm. I do see a number of people posting that they would like it and are willing to pay for it.

I can think of 2 toons I have that I'd be willing to change their AC on. Not because I don't have the other AC, but because of their armor, pets, etc. I have 3 commandos and 1 vanguard, I really, really don't like the vanguard AC, so I'd like to change that into a 4th commando. I like the name, I like the armor, it is an old toon that I haven't played for a long time, she is wearing armor that no longer exists in the game.

How does my changing her to a commando hurt anyone?
You make some good points but you also negate some obvious ones to the counter point (Edit: I meant to write omit, not negate). As I said earlier, in this thread, we are hard-capped on character slots. AC respec "on the fly" (and we both know that is what it will be) allows for virtually unlimited respecs into and out of FotM "ACs".

How does it hurt anyone isn't the question that should be asked. The question that should be asked is how does it make the game better for everyone?

There are no armor appearances that no longer exists in the game. You can get reskins of Columi, Tionese, Rakata gear from the GTN or via the CM.

I have actually been in both camps on this issue. Way back in late 2012(ish) I "wished" that my Merc could have been a PT .... because PTs were far superior in PvP. Know what I did? You guessed it.

Ironically, it turned out that I didn't like PT nearly as much as I thought I would. Of course my roster still contains three PTs at 60+ (and a 60 VG). A lot of that has to do with consolidation onto a single server since I was able to boost my roster by 18 slots and transfers are 90cc per. But I digress.

As I said earlier, if it were done correctly, I think a lot of the anti's could cross the picket line. But, from the perspective of old school MMOers .... when was the last time Bioware did anything correctly in this game?

I do, however, like what we discussed last night about abolishing ACs outright and using a drop down menu for discipline selection.
Let this sink in, this game is Free to Play, boasts one of the most popular IPs on the planet and yet 76.47% of the servers are empty.
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