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Why oh why do so many NPCs have CCs or Knockbacks?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why oh why do so many NPCs have CCs or Knockbacks?

-Marauder-'s Avatar


-Marauder-
12.28.2015 , 12:29 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Kawiki View Post
Most of the stuns are 4m.

When your entrench is down. Roll into the mobs - attack - cover pulse - attack x2 - flash bang - attack and if they are still alive hit them with your hard stun.

That's just one way to deal when entrench is down. A little ingenuity goes along way. And frankly they usually blow it when you are immune anyway in which case it's on cool down.

Obviously boss fights are different but you have ways to avoid almost all of the stuns on trash and a good % of them during boss fights.
You set this up in a way that would get people who imagine this to be happening to be "really smart and awesome", in truth it doesn't work and you know that perfectly fine. Somehow you manage to roll into mobs, some of whom stun pretty much immediatly, attack at point blank, throw them back right after (some of them strong mobs, so they don't care about your knock down), attack twice more etc.

Not just that, two seconds later all your CD's are ready again for the group after and the group after and the group after. I guess going through your list pointing out that you threw everything you could think of in there to make it seem bigger has gotten to you, at least you completely dropped slows which nobody was talking about, so there's some measure of progress.

jediwarrio's Avatar


jediwarrio
12.28.2015 , 12:32 PM | #32
I agree with the OP makes as I find the combat in this game for me tedious, annoying and boring. I prefer free flowing combat not stop start combat since it seems every npc in the game has some way of stopping you from using your skills.

What I do is try to avoid as much combat as I can but If I get into a fight and the npc's use their annoying skills I just let my companion take the fight even boss fights.

If it wasn't for the story i.e. Agent story then this game would be difficult to play and subscribe if it was just down to the combat.

Kawiki's Avatar


Kawiki
12.28.2015 , 12:36 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by -Marauder- View Post
You set this up in a way that would get people who imagine this to be happening to be "really smart and awesome", in truth it doesn't work and you know that perfectly fine. Somehow you manage to roll into mobs, some of whom stun pretty much immediatly, attack at point blank, throw them back right after (some of them strong mobs, so they don't care about your knock down), attack twice more etc.

Not just that, two seconds later all your CD's are ready again for the group after and the group after and the group after. I guess going through your list pointing out that you threw everything you could think of in there to make it seem bigger has gotten to you, at least you completely dropped slows which nobody was talking about, so there's some measure of progress.
I never said anything about slows. My point is many of the stuns can be avoided with a little thought. Is it 100% perfect, of course not. But if you know they are going to stun you there are many counters you can use to avoid them.

There is nothing really smart or awesome about what I posted it is just a suggestion to learn everything at your disposal and find a applicable use for them OR you could just complain about it and ask the devs to change it.

Next time you complain though don't use a range class that has a ton of counters.

-Marauder-'s Avatar


-Marauder-
12.28.2015 , 12:40 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Kawiki View Post
I never said anything about slows. My point is many of the stuns can be avoided with a little thought. Is it 100% perfect, of course not. But if you know they are going to stun you there are many counters you can use to avoid them.

There is nothing really smart or awesome about what I posted it is just a suggestion to learn everything at your disposal and find a applicable use for them OR you could just complain about it and ask the devs to change it.

Next time you complain though don't use a range class that has a ton of counters.
Once again, you set up a needlessly bloated way of doing things that doesn't work and would require so much time and effort that one would be better of getting stunned, then burning them down with AoE. Somehow in your magical queue you missed the point where an instant CC will hit you and quite easily so, as these mobs aren't being knocked down by cover pulse for example and by the time they're in range for it they're also in range to CC you.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
12.28.2015 , 12:49 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Nothing_Shines View Post
I enjoy the missions like Imperial heroic on Hoth where you have to take out the rogue Sith in the ice cave and every single silver mob (like twenty of them) Force chokes you in succession.
I once did that with my Gunslinger without knowing what kind of area that was. The role-player in me said : Okay, these are evil Sith, let's take them out !
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.

Kawiki's Avatar


Kawiki
12.28.2015 , 12:56 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by -Marauder- View Post
Once again, you set up a needlessly bloated way of doing things that doesn't work and would require so much time and effort that one would be better of getting stunned, then burning them down with AoE. Somehow in your magical queue you missed the point where an instant CC will hit you and quite easily so, as these mobs aren't being knocked down by cover pulse for example and by the time they're in range for it they're also in range to CC you.
Then take the stun and ignore everything I said. If it's too hard for you, it's too hard for you. You have tools at your disposal use them or use them not.

Eialune's Avatar


Eialune
12.28.2015 , 01:44 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by -Marauder- View Post
Once again, you set up a needlessly bloated way of doing things that doesn't work and would require so much time and effort that one would be better of getting stunned, then burning them down with AoE. Somehow in your magical queue you missed the point where an instant CC will hit you and quite easily so, as these mobs aren't being knocked down by cover pulse for example and by the time they're in range for it they're also in range to CC you.
This thread would be going a lot better if people actually addressed you, instead of the customized Strawman version of you they keep criticizing.

Stuns and CC that cannot be anticipated, countered, or interrupted are not fun. There are a few Heroics that I leave out of my weekly rotation because every little silver mob has a 4 second stun, or knockback, or something else that cannot be avoided. There are plenty of trash mobs and even boss fights where the mechanics are engaging; your timing matters, your location matters, your abilities matter etc; but those aren't the fights we're talking about in this thread, as I thought was pretty clear from the OP. We're talking about the unnecessary amount of fights where those things don't matter, because unless you one-shot the mob before it aggros you, you are guaranteed an unbreakable instant ability that effectively removes your need to even look at the screen for 4 or more seconds. And when they're clustered, as they are in a lot of the examples people have given, you're guaranteed that over, and over, and over... your abilities and CDs become irrelevant.

That's not fun. It's every bit as cheap as just tacking extra HP onto a mob for fake longevity. Only in a way it's more jarring, because combat is supposed to be an interactive, stimulating activity even when it isn't difficult, and this creates an endless sequence of false starts and jarring stops.

RandomName_Ru's Avatar


RandomName_Ru
12.28.2015 , 02:04 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Eialune View Post
This thread would be going a lot better if people actually addressed you, instead of the customized Strawman version of you they keep criticizing.

Stuns and CC that cannot be anticipated, countered, or interrupted are not fun. There are a few Heroics that I leave out of my weekly rotation because every little silver mob has a 4 second stun, or knockback, or something else that cannot be avoided. There are plenty of trash mobs and even boss fights where the mechanics are engaging; your timing matters, your location matters, your abilities matter etc; but those aren't the fights we're talking about in this thread, as I thought was pretty clear from the OP. We're talking about the unnecessary amount of fights where those things don't matter, because unless you one-shot the mob before it aggros you, you are guaranteed an unbreakable instant ability that effectively removes your need to even look at the screen for 4 or more seconds. And when they're clustered, as they are in a lot of the examples people have given, you're guaranteed that over, and over, and over... your abilities and CDs become irrelevant.

That's not fun. It's every bit as cheap as just tacking extra HP onto a mob for fake longevity. Only in a way it's more jarring, because combat is supposed to be an interactive, stimulating activity even when it isn't difficult, and this creates an endless sequence of false starts and jarring stops.
This so much. You can plan perfectly the mob fight and not be stunned once, true, but what about next one? And the next one? To do it without stunfest you will have to wait for your cooldowns. Or just eat it. Either way you do nothing. Like watching a Black Talon cut-scenes, this becomes slightly boring after a 10th time.

But, yeh, tanking companion could be a way to go. This i will do.

SootyTX's Avatar


SootyTX
12.28.2015 , 02:09 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Eialune View Post
This thread would be going a lot better if people actually addressed you, instead of the customized Strawman version of you they keep criticizing.

Stuns and CC that cannot be anticipated, countered, or interrupted are not fun. There are a few Heroics that I leave out of my weekly rotation because every little silver mob has a 4 second stun, or knockback, or something else that cannot be avoided. There are plenty of trash mobs and even boss fights where the mechanics are engaging; your timing matters, your location matters, your abilities matter etc; but those aren't the fights we're talking about in this thread, as I thought was pretty clear from the OP. We're talking about the unnecessary amount of fights where those things don't matter, because unless you one-shot the mob before it aggros you, you are guaranteed an unbreakable instant ability that effectively removes your need to even look at the screen for 4 or more seconds. And when they're clustered, as they are in a lot of the examples people have given, you're guaranteed that over, and over, and over... your abilities and CDs become irrelevant.

That's not fun. It's every bit as cheap as just tacking extra HP onto a mob for fake longevity. Only in a way it's more jarring, because combat is supposed to be an interactive, stimulating activity even when it isn't difficult, and this creates an endless sequence of false starts and jarring stops.
He created his own reality by stating "People are complaining about being forced into inaction, of being an onlooker and forced to stay out of the fight, each damn pack, every 10-20 seconds." Which is a complete fabrication, not only pack composition but also of our ability to do anything about it. That he chooses to passively accept this in game is up to him, as a couple of us have pointed out we see many tools at our disposal and use them, and don't have the same problems he does.

However, he has made it clear he doesn't actually want a discussion, he just wants a thread of people that agree with him and discount all possible counters as "They are just telling me to L2P but I don't want to".

Edit: Have just read another post by you and have a better understanding of your position - if you want any tips or tricks to help with these types of mob CC issues, please just ask. Using a companion in tank mode (so they bear the brunt of them) is a good start.

Kacynski's Avatar


Kacynski
12.28.2015 , 02:40 PM | #40
To some of you that said things on the line of "just learn your class skills"

....

This thread is NOT about the fights where the tools in our arsenal matter - it is about the plethora of fights that outright ignore our CC and knockback immunities and counters. Hydraulic Overrides? Still get pushed. Entrench or Unrelenting? Doesn't help a bit. It seems that many, many mobs in KotFE simply cheat. That's what is annoying. The fact that we do have abilities that should work, but actually don't.

I understand that some boss abilities in operations should be ably to bypass our counters if the dynamic of the specific fight calls for it (like it was done for Revan HM). But that every single trashmob on Asylum should be able to choke, push and pull me - even with hydraulics on - is beyond annoying.