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Sorc healers doing more HPS than OPs

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Sorc healers doing more HPS than OPs
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aristrokratie's Avatar


aristrokratie
12.26.2015 , 04:13 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
Thank you for this! Can you also put in the Alacrity in the equation? Since the surge/crit merge 4.0, we are now able to stack Alacrity over other stats. If you have time can you do the math? We know for a fact the raw numbers are lower but does crit/alacrity gear build lessen the blow?

The stats we ran 3.0 before around close to:

20.44%~ Crit
4.32% Alacrity
250-300 Critical Rating, 334 Alacrity

Now it's:

Alacrity: 995 (10.19%)
Critical Rating: 1397 (38.58%)
Surge is like 68-69%
Okay, what was your surge back in 3.0?
I need your bonus healing, crit chance, crit multiplier and alacrity for 2.x, 3.x and 4.x to claculate everything.

LordKitana's Avatar


LordKitana
12.26.2015 , 06:36 PM | #52
yes i norm stay top heals with my healers granted sorc is ez peasy to do but so is merc and operative i dunno maybe they are all super ez to me bcuz i love healing and im pretty good at kiting so that could also be why aswell as i notice a lack of healers being focused in pvp alot of dps go after tanks lel this ill never understand ahaha
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Miggzy's Avatar


Miggzy
12.26.2015 , 07:10 PM | #53
Most people dont know this because WZ's are a total mess but damage in this game has always been and still is over the top and much stronger than heals. Despite being boring compared to the glory days of its 3.0 version, sorc is in a good place right now and what needs to happen is scoundrels and mercs need to get buffed up to sorcs level.
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FerkWork's Avatar


FerkWork
12.26.2015 , 07:28 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Miggzy View Post
Most people dont know this because WZ's are a total mess but damage in this game has always been and still is over the top and much stronger than heals. Despite being boring compared to the glory days of its 3.0 version, sorc is in a good place right now and what needs to happen is scoundrels and mercs need to get buffed up to sorcs level.
Knowing BW they will just nerf Sorcs to Oblivion, nerf Mercs, and nerf Operatives, and call it a day.

Tykhelituss's Avatar


Tykhelituss
12.27.2015 , 08:25 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
If you have time can you do the math? We know for a fact the raw numbers are lower but does crit/alacrity gear build lessen the blow?
Critting more often than not makes it seem less of a blow than what it is. Which is why if you ever see PvE parses for Operative healer, higher Crit tends to have more consistent results(not saying we should base PvP off of PvE; merely showing how the stat affects sustained healing). The reason Operative's HoTs have been gutted is due to Kolto Waves. While it's strong, that is why KP/SP have been neglected so hard. You'd have to considerably nerf Kolto Waves for a more passive HoT buff.

JouerTue's Avatar


JouerTue
12.27.2015 , 09:17 AM | #56
smart heals are the worst. nobody should be able to put out so much EHPS on group members while heavily focused.
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aristrokratie's Avatar


aristrokratie
12.27.2015 , 09:48 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Tykhelituss View Post
Critting more often than not makes it seem less of a blow than what it is. Which is why if you ever see PvE parses for Operative healer, higher Crit tends to have more consistent results(not saying we should base PvP off of PvE; merely showing how the stat affects sustained healing). The reason Operative's HoTs have been gutted is due to Kolto Waves. While it's strong, that is why KP/SP have been neglected so hard. You'd have to considerably nerf Kolto Waves for a more passive HoT buff.
I've already included crit in my calculations, actually it's even worse of a nerf than I've posted before because UM EM and KP all had 10% more surge than they have now (2.0: 30%... 3.0and4.0 only 20%)

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
12.27.2015 , 11:33 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by aristrokratie View Post
Okay, what was your surge back in 3.0?
I need your bonus healing, crit chance, crit multiplier and alacrity for 2.x, 3.x and 4.x to claculate everything.
I think there's several reasons to be skeptical that you're onto anything major here. As mentioned the relatively large amounts of alacrity being run now will cut down on how much each tick hits for in order to get them more often. BW also has made edits to how good healing is across the board and how much health you get per point of endurance (the latter was increased as recently as 4.0). I think if probes are in fact weaker relative to health pools that you can probably expect the same of other heals -- with individual buffs and nerfs factored in, of course. There are also considerations about how much probes have costed during the various expansions, the fact that you get "extra" ticks from it being refreshed by surgical probe, and that you really need to be very accurate with your math when comparing small percentages like this (where are your probe healing values from? and are "30k" and "40k" really accurate enough for the HP pools?).

All that pedantic crap being said, I totally understand and agree with your overall point here -- our HOTS are simply not good enough considering our lack of access to burst healing. Enduring kolto was a good addition but the cooldown is long as it is and that is exacerbated by the fact that revitalizers is just about a must-have utility.

I'd really love to see the return of a buff to surgical probes on targets below 30% HP in the form of a significant bump in how much it hits for. Consider the bizarre state of affairs created after reworking surgical probe: the NON-CASTER healer is COMPLETELY reliant on casts to reliably save people who get dangerously low. What kind of design sense does that make? Anyone who has ever played operative healer in group ranked knows how completely hosed you are when somebody gets low and your opponents chain a few interrupts together against you. You'll never interrupt a sorc so many times that he is completely locked out -- he will always have SOMETHING bursty he can do. Make surgical probe not hit like **** on targets below 30%. It wouldn't even need to be a big hit, just enough to actually be relevant when you can't get a cast off for whatever reason.

I can abide sorc heals being brain dead and cloaking screen being a joke of an oh-**** button in comparison to barrier and phase walk. I just want some burst. PLEASE

Cretinus's Avatar


Cretinus
12.27.2015 , 11:57 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Miggzy View Post
Most people dont know this because WZ's are a total mess but damage in this game has always been and still is over the top and much stronger than heals. Despite being boring compared to the glory days of its 3.0 version, sorc is in a good place right now and what needs to happen is scoundrels and mercs need to get buffed up to sorcs level.
<-This. And juggs and maras and PTs and assassins and gunslingers should be able to heal too and also be buffed to current sorcs level in terms of healing. DPS is much too strong and there's not sufficient healing yet, specially at Voidstar.

So let us make a petition:
Let juggs, maras, PTs, assassins and gunslingers be able to heal like sorcs do. As a balance measure, give the survivability of tank juggs to everybody and let everybody tank, taunt and guard.

We demand: Make TTK > 5 hours. Now.

aristrokratie's Avatar


aristrokratie
12.27.2015 , 11:59 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
I think there's several reasons to be skeptical that you're onto anything major here. As mentioned the relatively large amounts of alacrity being run now will cut down on how much each tick hits for in order to get them more often. BW also has made edits to how good healing is across the board and how much health you get per point of endurance (the latter was increased as recently as 4.0). I think if probes are in fact weaker relative to health pools that you can probably expect the same of other heals -- with individual buffs and nerfs factored in, of course. There are also considerations about how much probes have costed during the various expansions, the fact that you get "extra" ticks from it being refreshed by surgical probe, and that you really need to be very accurate with your math when comparing small percentages like this (where are your probe healing values from? and are "30k" and "40k" really accurate enough for the HP pools?).

All that pedantic crap being said, I totally understand and agree with your overall point here -- our HOTS are simply not good enough considering our lack of access to burst healing. Enduring kolto was a good addition but the cooldown is long as it is and that is exacerbated by the fact that revitalizers is just about a must-have utility.

I'd really love to see the return of a buff to surgical probes on targets below 30% HP in the form of a significant bump in how much it hits for. Consider the bizarre state of affairs created after reworking surgical probe: the NON-CASTER healer is COMPLETELY reliant on casts to reliably save people who get dangerously low. What kind of design sense does that make? Anyone who has ever played operative healer in group ranked knows how completely hosed you are when somebody gets low and your opponents chain a few interrupts together against you. You'll never interrupt a sorc so many times that he is completely locked out -- he will always have SOMETHING bursty he can do. Make surgical probe not hit like **** on targets below 30%. It wouldn't even need to be a big hit, just enough to actually be relevant when you can't get a cast off for whatever reason.

I can abide sorc heals being brain dead and cloaking screen being a joke of an oh-**** button in comparison to barrier and phase walk. I just want some burst. PLEASE
Please don't hit me if I am wrong but according to this site
http://dulfy.net/2014/10/30/swtor-3-...estream-notes/

alacrity only affects dots, not hots.


Also even though my calculations are quite inaccurate they allow people to get the gist about the healing percentages.
For example static barrier of sorcs absorbs about 9k damage, 15 second lockout. In this time our hots would heal for:
(crit of 40% calculated as exactly 2/5 of the heals crit, 69% surge)
My hot ticks for 1713 with bedside manners up.
5*(1713+1713*2/5*69%)= 10928.9

So actually static barrier almost absorbs as much as our hots+ you can use it to mitigate burst AND it cannot overheal.

It does not prove anything but that our hots are quite pathetic
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