ETA on Advanced Class change?

Then we would get ranged Shadows and melee Sages...

Actually, we already have those already.

WoW's respec system is just like SWTOR's discipline system. 3 classes can choose to respec between dps and heals, 3 classes between dps and tank. Only 2 classes are locked into pure dps specs (sentinel and gunslinger).

Keep in mind that in this particular game, Advanced Class is not a subset of Class. Class is a story line division and nothing more, Advanced Class is the actual game mechanics part that is labeled Class in other games. People asking for an Advanced Class change are in reality asking for what is analogous to a class change in any other MMO.

There is no MMO that I can think of offhand that allows you to change classes legitimately. I don't see people on Bizzard's forums asking to be allowed to switch from warlock to paladin being met with success, do you? Well that is exactly what you are asking for here. So it is not elitist to say, "Please stop begging for this because they aren't going to do it." Because, well, the next time an MMO allows a class change will be the first time.

While I agree and have been advocating for Advanced Class swap for sometime there are some inaccuracies in your post.
Bioware has in effect a 3 stage system:-
1:- you choose a Class (story, core mechanics)
2:- you choose an Advanced Class (separation of tank/heal core abilities)
3:- you choose a Discipline (specialisation into required role Tank/ Heal/ RangedDPS/ MeleeDPS)
Given that very few have advocated a true Class swap it is also considered a 2 stage system (just stages 1 and 2 having any real impact).
There are only a four Advanced Classes that restrict you to the same role (Imperial Agent Sniper, Sith Warrior Marauder, Smuggler Gunslinger, Jedi Knight Sentinel) -technically two if you consider the underlying mechanics are mirrored between the factions.
For all the other Classes the Advanced Class choice is there to segregate the core Tank/ Heal abilities.


Confusion and misuse of the terms Class and Advanced Class have plagued this thread. SWTOR is not WoW so using WoW definitions of Class to argue for something in SWTOR is misleading.
If you are discussing a mechanic or design decision in SWTOR it is best to use the terms that SWTOR uses.
Sentinel and Gunslinger are Advanced Classes not Classes (as are their mirror ACs Marauder and Sniper).
Advanced Class is very much a subset of Class.
Class is far more than a storyline division (although that is the most obvious), it is also the first step you take to deciding what Advanced Class and Discipline you want to have access to.
The Class carries through with core mechanics available to both Advanced Classes and the Disciplines, this is more obvious across some Classes than others.
No MMO or no MMO you can think of?

It's important to realise that Role (Discipline choice) is the defining aspect of what a character can do.

There are many MMOs, WoW amongst them, that allow you to select between Tank/ Heal/ RangedDPS/ MeleeDPS roles on the same character.
It seems somewhat ironic that you specifically mention the Paladin, a class that last time I played could Tank/ Heal/ and DPS.
There's also the Druid and Monk.

That is all that is really being asked for with the Advanced Class swap, the choice to open up the full potential of roles for a character. Many of the limitations have been removed such as training costs and skill trees, the addition of being able to save keybindings. About the only hardship is the need to requip, but that already exists when you change Discipline from Tank to DPS.

TL;DNR
SWTOR to WoW comparison, Advanced Class swap would be like playing a Druid, Paladin or Monk.

3 stage class system reminds me a lot of EQ2, at least when it first launched.

As I said, the analog would be asking to change from a Warlock to a Paladin in WoW. Let me know when you see an MMO allow this.

SWTOR Advanced Class == Class in any other game. Please understand that this is how the game is designed from the start. Your class is basically meaningless outside of story, there is no further proof of that than the fact that even shared abilities are often changed depending on AC (glaring examples exist for sage/shadow and scoundrel/slinger ACs).

You can also add to that fact, the fact they have spent the past 2 expansions FURTHER pushing the ACs apart with even the shared specs being changed to be more individualized to their specific AC. That's further evidence of their design intent for the ACs to actually be the base class of the player, and disciplines are where they will allow swapping.

The analogy from WoW is playing a Druid, Paladin or Monk.
A single class that has access to all the roles.

How the game was designed in the start has little place in a discussion on a forum asking for changes to be considered. More than any other computer game format MMOs evolve during their playspan rather than new releases.
There's a snippet of a presentation with James Ohlen one of the original producers where he speaks about being able to change AC (I'm sure you can track the link down it's appeared in this thread several times) and that was within 6 months or so of launch.
They've also spent the last two expansions removing obstacles that stand in the way of allowing AC swap such as training costs, the need to go to a trainer for abilities, saving keybindings. Not to mention paying for a fresh level 60 (that removes just about every argument for unskilled players that haven't learnt how to play their discipline from joining in endgame).

The argument against allowing AC swap has basically boiled down to 'Bah humbug! I don't want options or allow other gamers to play how they want.'

Any way, off to indulge in the festivities, be back in the New Year or there abouts

It would only make noob even more noobie when problems in any group content appear and they were required to switch to a role they have no idea how to use it properly to only avoid the chance of being kicked.

Then what you want is an expansion of the discipline system such that 2 of the 8 ACs have access to all 3 roles. WoW has 12 classes and 3 can perform all three roles, so that's 25% of the classes. So that would be 2 of 8 in SWTOR, counting the fact that the factions are really just mirrors of each other and therefore there is only 8 classes in reality.

They still aren't allowed to change between classes though, only specs or in SWTOR terms disciplines. When someone asks for an AC change option, this is what developers see, "I want the option to change from Warlock to Paladin." The answer so far has been no from every MMO developer I can think of.

I always found the "advanced" classes to be weird to be honest, it's not an entirely different character, it's the same story, same type of char, all around the same except SLIGHTLY different and might be able to do other roles. Yet if you want to play those, you have to redo the entire char.

To me it mostly seems as if they hoped people would level two chars, gear two chars and play two chars of the same class. Because it would take double the time to do, rather than it being based on some real reason.

Claiming "people would be more nooby" is a bit ridiculous. A sith Juggernaught that has always played a dps wont be any better at being a tank than a Sith Marauder who always played a DPS will be nor any worse. The inexperience lies with the role itself, not the class.

So if one wanted to prevent that, you'd need to "lock" every single last specc, never allow any changes to be made. Which used to be the case in old games (mostly single player) such as Diablo 2, where a patch might very well render your entire char moot and force you to reroll it entirely just to realocate some points. Something they eventually got rid off.

Claiming "people are bad and thus we have to withold options from them" is dishonest and being real unfair to a great many people. Completely ignoring that to get experience with something even a new player needs to be allowed to play it (and because it's effectively just tactical with no role assignement up to 50, you can't say they do so during leveling). It's like claiming more than 11 deck slots on hearthstone would be "a bad idea" because people couldn't cope suddenly having 12.

With regards to this thread all I'd be asking for is AC swap functionality. If I was to expand on that it would not be the Discipline system but the Advanced Classes. I appreciate it is unlikely that true Classes will not be introduced to the game, unless they go the Deathknight route and have them start at a higher level (such as 60 and straight into KotFE).
On the other hand there seems to be plenty of scope to repurpose existing animations and weapon combinations to introduce some additional AC types to the fold.
A long time ago I suggested this would be a good way to open up all the roles to all the classes.
I'd really like a non-force melee weapon AC for my Bounty Hunter, you know so they can do Mandalorian things.
Or how about force lightning animations/ pebbles for Consular/ Inquisitor.
Or a tank spec for Imperial Agent/ Smuggler.
All of the above could be achieved through an additional AC per Class and make AC swapping a viable option.

In SWTOR terms,
A Discipline change is just changing ability mechanics. (Shieldtech <-> Pyrotech<->Advanced Prototype)
An Advanced Class change is just changing ability mechanics. (Powertech <-> Mercenary)
A Class change is something that dramatically alters the theme of the character and missions available to them. (Powertech <-> Sith Warrior)

In WOW terms,
A Spec change is just changing ability mechanics. (Protection<->Retribution<->Holy)
A Class change is something that dramatically alters the theme of the character and missions available to them. (Paladin <-> Warlock)

I'm not sure how WoW handles things now but back in the day I played (about 6 years ago, around the time of Burning Crusade) you had Class specific quests. Not as core to the game as the Class stories of SWTOR but they were there.

I can't mind read so I have no idea what devs think when they read threads like these, if they do I suspect it's more along the lines of some devs agree and some disagree.