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Item Stack Resale Exploit

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
12.09.2015 , 06:16 PM | #271
Quote: Originally Posted by Alssaran View Post
That doesn't matter. It does nothing to add to the temporarily banned state of the account. It's one thing to take away their game time. That's the thing closely associated with an exploit. You should also remove those credits and the influence which was gained by fraudulent activity.

However...



is simply too much. No other MMO developer in history will ever go this far, they know it hurts them way too much. You cannot take away legitimately gotten stuff from an account without feeling major consequences to your image. The issue here is that the steps mentioned above do nothing at all to add to an already lengthened ban.

You can remove all ill-gotten items and ban them for a period of two months. That's enough time to ponder their behaviour. The ill-gotten influence has been removed, resulting in no gain, while at the same time giving the person the opportunity to come back and play it right this time. I'm not saying some damage hasn't been done, but that's it. Just like our justice system. At least here in Europe. Our system isn't mean to condemn criminals and lock them away forever, it is a system targeted to rehabilitate criminals into society.

You'll just create a paranoid climate around this game if there's always a chance for all your stuff to be removed when accidentally stumbling upon an exploit. Yes, this has been proposed by some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiE4CJ7D0C8

Bioware is essentially doing the 4th sketch here. They are, once again, applying punishment completely disporportional to the crime.

People here are complaining that this is just a slap on the wrist. That is what a temporal ban should be. A simple reminder not to do it again. Do it again? Then you perma-ban them. This is a sledgehammer approach once again. Bioware has no idea about moderation.
Sure you can. You look at the account, look how much it cheated, look at how much it has contributed financially to the game ( CC , Sub ) and if the later isn't of much value you punish the hell out of it to get them screaming and moaning on forums etc. to deter people from doing it again.

They don't do it wholesale of course but when you selectively punish people heavily in the hope they get vocal about it then it's not going to drive people away it's going to make them get a sense of justice and more importantly hopefully put people off doing similar actions in the future.

Who those scapegoats will be? ... Usually reddit etc. will tell.

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
12.09.2015 , 06:17 PM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
I didn't care, or even know, for that matter. I have had no incentive to play this game outside of my team's scheduled weekend raids.

Honestly, what are people still doing in this game?
Enjoying the level sync you were such a proponent of I imagine.

Avinler's Avatar


Avinler
12.09.2015 , 06:22 PM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by Pagy View Post
and with the record for the most meaningless non-punishment was set today
You couldn't be more wrong. There's significant economic impact to Influence 50 and having accounts out there with 20 alts with 6+ max Influence companions would have been a serious issue from this exploit. It needed to be part of the solution, so bravo.
Avin

Founder, Retired GM of <Fortitude> on Jedi Covenant
& Andrew on SWTOR Economics

Makillda's Avatar


Makillda
12.09.2015 , 06:29 PM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
I can't believe how poorly some people are at reading comprehension.

In my post you quoted, I clearly stated exploiters should be actioned, and only suggested that EA / Bioware would need to consider the value of an account against the exploit in determining what action to take, not that they should take no actions.

If as you stat, the only people who exploited were those that do not contribute to this game's revenue, they will most likely ban them permanently.

However, if some of the people who exploited are subscribers and CM customers and thus contribute to this game's revenue, then suspensions from the game are more likely as EA / Bioware will want to retain them as paying customers.

Simple business logic - totally baffling I'm sure for those incapable of grasping EA is a for-profit company which earns money by providing SWTOR as a paid service, and thus filters decisions against impacts to their finances.
So, you are saying that whales will get off lightly if they happen to be one of the more egregious exploiters simply because they drop stacks of cash on the game? I'm sorry but the idea of that is sickening to me. If anything, banhammering a couple of whales would go a long way towards making it clear that cheating and exploiting of any kind will not be tolerated no matter who you are.

Does BW have the balls to do it? Would we even know if they did? We may never know the answer to either of those questions. I would hope BW would have the stones to back up their policy with action. I'd also wager if a whale (or whales) were to be heavily actioned (all credits etc wiped) or permabanned, they would go public somewhere with cries of "You can't do this to me! I spend thousands of dollars on packs every day!!!!" I would welcome the chance to laugh at them.

I would also give Bioware an epic high-five for having a spine and showing some integrity. It's a lot easier to support a company like that with my sub fee than one who lets people slide simply because they choose to throw cash at them.
And now for something completely different!

Yes, it's a referral link. Now, watch as I pull a rabbit out of this hat.

Pagy's Avatar


Pagy
12.09.2015 , 06:33 PM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by MorgenBlue View Post
Those things take forever and are quite costly to get to 50 now.
i have to laugh at how pointless and stupid it is to level up companion affection
Quote: Originally Posted by Avinler View Post
You couldn't be more wrong. There's significant economic impact to Influence 50 and having accounts out there with 20 alts with 6+ max Influence companions would have been a serious issue from this exploit. It needed to be part of the solution, so bravo.
a serious issue?

a serious issue?

you're joking, right?

dscount's Avatar


dscount
12.09.2015 , 06:33 PM | #276
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
I didn't care, or even know, for that matter. I have had no incentive to play this game outside of my team's scheduled weekend raids.

Honestly, what are people still doing in this game?
LOL... okay buddy here is a Hug for ya! *hug*
Reference Link: Why not? http://www.swtor.com/r/FDltnT
WTB Legacy Bound Ear, Implants, Relics

Psychopyro's Avatar


Psychopyro
12.09.2015 , 06:42 PM | #277
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Here is the first update on use of the stacked item sale exploit. As of this afternoon we have sent out our initial set of warnings, suspensions, and permanent bans for accounts participating in this exploit. I say initial, because it was important to action the accounts and prevent any further damage to the economy.
WARNINGS?!? You gotta be kidding me.... Just like the chair exploit... 3 day ban and back at it... What are you guys the Raiders? If you ain't cheating you ain't trying?
OK fine... I'll post my referral link in protest.

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
12.09.2015 , 06:50 PM | #278
I am 100% glad that this exploit was fixed, and I fully support not discussing exploits publicly on the forums for the most part. I am also quite happy that the people who where exploiting this error are getting the punishments that they deserve.

I am disappointed though that this was not thoroughly tested before it got onto the live servers. If you would just start to push patches to the Public Test Server then errors like this could be tested, found and discussed publicly on the section of the forums dedicated to the PTS. Please BioWare I love the Star Wars universe and want to continue to play this game, but if you aren't going to take the need to test seriously I'm going to be leaving permanently at the end of my sub time in less than 90 days.
Guild leader of {Imperial} <The Betrayed> & {Republic} <xX The Betrayed Xx> on The Harbinger. Recruitment Thread
My Twitch channel, both a link and the address so you can choose how you visit it. twitch.tv/otawo

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
12.09.2015 , 06:55 PM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by Psychopyro View Post
WARNINGS?!? You gotta be kidding me.... Just like the chair exploit... 3 day ban and back at it... What are you guys the Raiders? If you ain't cheating you ain't trying?
Warnings make sense if the person wasn't doing it repeatedly. Granted if I did it and realized what happened I would have sent in a bug report, but still there is that off chance that someone did it without realizing what happened. Don't over react as if everyone is a cheater like those silly Fooseball players.
Guild leader of {Imperial} <The Betrayed> & {Republic} <xX The Betrayed Xx> on The Harbinger. Recruitment Thread
My Twitch channel, both a link and the address so you can choose how you visit it. twitch.tv/otawo

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
12.09.2015 , 06:59 PM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by Makillda View Post
So, you are saying that whales will get off lightly if they happen to be one of the more egregious exploiters simply because they drop stacks of cash on the game? I'm sorry but the idea of that is sickening to me. If anything, banhammering a couple of whales would go a long way towards making it clear that cheating and exploiting of any kind will not be tolerated no matter who you are.

Does BW have the balls to do it? Would we even know if they did? We may never know the answer to either of those questions. I would hope BW would have the stones to back up their policy with action. I'd also wager if a whale (or whales) were to be heavily actioned (all credits etc wiped) or permabanned, they would go public somewhere with cries of "You can't do this to me! I spend thousands of dollars on packs every day!!!!" I would welcome the chance to laugh at them.

I would also give Bioware an epic high-five for having a spine and showing some integrity. It's a lot easier to support a company like that with my sub fee than one who lets people slide simply because they choose to throw cash at them.
No I'm not saying that at all.

What I am saying is that those in the 'ban them all and ban them for good' crowd are not thinking straight as Bioware is a business, and a business has to consider impacts to its bottom line in its decisions.

An account which spends hundreds a month on this game and used the exploit to get a few gifts for themselves but didn't generate credits is probably not someone Bioware wants to lose, regardless of how you or I feel, and thus will probably get a suspension or warning.

At the same time, I would expect accounts that generated a billion credits while posting stacks and stacks of gifts on the GTN flaunting the exploit will get banned permanently, regardless of how much they spend.

In both cases though, I am saying that Bioware will consider their bottom line, including the potential loss of revenue, in making those decisions.