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What is your basis for opposing a group-searching system in SWTOR?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
What is your basis for opposing a group-searching system in SWTOR?

Karzi's Avatar


Karzi
12.28.2011 , 04:40 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Hairyzac View Post
Actually WoW did have that type of community during its golden era. Most everyone did help everyone when I began playing during classic.
Is this what we are dealing with here? I had to double take this.

When WoW was released its defining feature was its bad community. Maybe you just rolled on an rp server and hung out in Goldshire all day long.

Community was staying up until 2 in the morning helping another guilds cleric get his epic so that we would have more of them on the server, knowing he might res me with it later. That guy in WoW was just helping you because you were a female charater. I know the WoW mentality.

I don't think these people against improving the lfg tools are all that rational. I believe it has to do with the fact they don't do pug flashpoints much at all to begin with.

When its your preferred method of play, its extremely frustration in its current form.

Kagek's Avatar


Kagek
12.28.2011 , 04:57 PM | #42
I don't see why there's isn't a tool for finding people to group with outside of your zone. It's like if you wanna run flashpoints you have to sit on your butt in the fleet and spam /1

With a decent tool one can do solo quests until someone makes a group for that flashpoint and invites you.

Haven't played WoW for many-many years, so I don't even know what went wrong with their tool there, but I don't understand how it could have ruined the game.

The current lfg system here is all broken. I used it once and noticed people still stay /lfg after joining a group.

Triforceelf's Avatar


Triforceelf
12.28.2011 , 05:15 PM | #43
There is absolutally no reason not to at least have a basic LFG tool, and at least put you in a server wide LFG channel. Right now its broken and worthless and impossible to find groups unless its people from your guild.

There is little reason not to have a que system similar to the PVP one, though it would be nice if both let you que for a specific warzone or flashpoint instead of a random one. Server wide or cross server, I don't care, and the people whining about it either have rose tinted glasses are idiots. I remember tanking and healing in classic WoW and burning Crusades. You know what? It sucked to try and get a heroic, or even a random dungeon group together. You sat in IF or Shat or whatever and spammed for hours, and even then you sometimes didn't get a group. And when you did, if you got baddies, it was over. You wipped on shattered halls trash or couldn't get past the first half of BRD and that was that. A LFG tool like WoWs is a great step forward, community be damned. You can still group with guildies.

Hairyzac's Avatar


Hairyzac
12.28.2011 , 05:18 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Karzi View Post
Is this what we are dealing with here? I had to double take this.

When WoW was released its defining feature was its bad community. Maybe you just rolled on an rp server and hung out in Goldshire all day long.

Community was staying up until 2 in the morning helping another guilds cleric get his epic so that we would have more of them on the server, knowing he might res me with it later. That guy in WoW was just helping you because you were a female charater. I know the WoW mentality.

I don't think these people against improving the lfg tools are all that rational. I believe it has to do with the fact they don't do pug flashpoints much at all to begin with.

When its your preferred method of play, its extremely frustration in its current form.
Actually I played on a day 1 server, and it was the most active PvP server in the country at the time. I did not play at release. Maybe people just didn't like you because judging from your post, I wouldn't want to help you out either.

Also I was a male human warlock...not a female. But thanks for coming to the forums to spew up some garbage. Your made up statements don't help your case. In fact they dig you AND your argument into a giant hole.

Trying to call a general group of people irrational is not how to get your way on video game forums. Certainly you don't expect BW to see your post and realize they must change things to make you happy right?

Your post is extremely negative and condescending and mostly untrue. I cannot comprehend what you hope to gain from it.

CelticPete's Avatar


CelticPete
12.28.2011 , 05:43 PM | #45
Quote:
because, what a lot of people seem to miss: if you have a tool that queues RANDOM people together (x-shard for example), the difficulty of the content has to scale accordingly - which means the instance has to be doable by a RANDOM uncoordinated team of varying degree of skill and equipment.
Absolutely. I made reference to this in my earlier post as well.


Quote:
it's still a game, so the reward you get is either based on challenge and/or time. if you remove the challenge, the time you spend getting the item has to be make up for it. in wow terms, the number of tokens you need per item increases (let's say a hard boss gives you 10 tokens. you wipe a lot in the beginning, but finally beat it. took you an hour, but you get 10 tokens. now, the boss is nerfed so you can easily kill it every time, 30 minutes in the instance so it only gives you 4 tokens - since the challenge is not a criteria anymore, the reward has to be based on time).
This needs to be emphasized - because lots of people don't get this. They aren't used to thinking form the developer perspective.

World of Warcraft is a fantastic example of this phenomenon. They recently introduced a random raid finder. Well how easy to raids have to be made so 'random' groups of people can be succesfull. Well CRAZY easy.. and they can't give great rewards.

It's the same deal with LFD dungeons. Because you want random groups to succeed much of the time you have to make the dungeons easy - but the grind long. In this way you slow advancement AND you allow random people enough success. At first they tried to slow advancement by making the heroics hard - but it turned out that the failure rate was too high and frustration levels were massive.

So what you end up with its lots of people running trivial content non-stop. And of course even when the trivial content was originally kinda tough when you have run through it 100+ times it becomes pretty easy.

What's worse this is a big part of the 'rude' behaviour. The grinders feel a 'pressure' to get their 'runs' in. And thus they lash out and the poor fool who isn't on his 50th run. You might think you can chill out and have a good time - and explore part of the dungeon. But for the grinder this is just one of 10 more runs they need to run that day.. And they can't 'afford' to waste time on one run.

People like to think that people are naturally 'good' and that the so called "bad" community has nothing to do with the mechanics. But I'd argue the opposite. The so called awful community is a function of the game mechanics. The people playing WoW are just acting like how any population of players would act exposed to the mechanics they are..

Developers should not excuse 'bad community' on just bad luck. They effectively create and control the community to a very large extent. Implement a cross server random dungeon finder and watch the community structure become greatly altered..

OTOH I am totally fine with a more obvious enhanced way to find people on the same server -as long as some interaction is required to actually put the group together.. I'd also be open to even more radical ideas like server merging.

It might be that Bioware screwed up a bit and a 'full' server isn't going to have enough low level players to run flashpoints. I think the real solution to this is bigger servers not group mates you will never see again.

Karzi's Avatar


Karzi
12.28.2011 , 05:49 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Hairyzac View Post
Maybe people just didn't like you because judging from your post, I wouldn't want to help you out either.
I don't need your help, i need you to stop trying to block the rest of us from finding each other with an improved tool so we can get into these flashpoints more efficiently.

Right now there are 0 people in cademimu and two people in taral v at going on 7pm on my server.

I'm sure somewhere someone is helping you complete an easily soloable quest atm though, so its all roses.

Kalytron's Avatar


Kalytron
12.28.2011 , 06:02 PM | #47
I think that there is already a social aspect of this game that has itself rooted in the community. People chat. Our War Zone groups are all inter-server. The people we dungeon with are all on the same world. You see randoms in all the same quest areas because all of us are leveling mostly together.

So all of us are going to have that social aspect of the game with us for as long as the game's around. But people who come in 6 months from now? Wont. They won't be a part of this million+ person leveling orgy to 50. The social part of the game that we're clinging to won't exist for them. When we hit 50? There's little reason to go back to the old leveling zones.

Which is why I feel like we do need a cross server LFG tool. Not a massive cross 10+ servers tool. I log in every day to different zone chats that are all spamming lfg. Without something to better connect us - in any regard, no matter what it is - for group content with a simple interface, it just gets skipped. And it's more socially alienating in the long run to individuals to have to skip group and flashpoint and zone content than it is to have a cross small server lfg feature. People can't find groups. They're just going to zerg to 50 in the future and skip as much as they can.

Graburr's Avatar


Graburr
12.28.2011 , 06:03 PM | #48
I propose we try to be construcive, most of the threads devolved into a pro/con shîtflinging contest which helps now one.


Quote: Originally Posted by Triforceelf View Post
There is absolutally no reason not to at least have a basic LFG tool, and at least put you in a server wide LFG channel. Right now its broken and worthless and impossible to find groups unless its people from your guild.
see, that's one of the areas it could be improved: explanations. it's by no way broken (which means completely non-functional).

let's say you want to do athiss and are looking for people. one way would be the fleet, the instance is there and everybody hangs out there.
but, athiss is also a lvl20 instance, so you want people around lvl20 - where are these people? taris. so just type /who, put "taris" in the search terms and voila: you see who's in taris and who's flagged. and even people who are not flagged are probably ok with doing an instance, but don't want to sit around on the fleet. so hop in your space ship, go to taris, ask in chat - if it's not 5 am in the morning you'll probably get enough answers to fill 2 groups. then you take the shuttle back which brings right to the instance and there you go.

does it require a bit more incentive to get a group? definitely. but that's a minor issue compared to the advantages (and even that issue can be improved by a more powerful lfg-tool - the way it works in other games).

Graburr's Avatar


Graburr
12.28.2011 , 06:11 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalytron View Post
But people who come in 6 months from now? Wont. They won't be a part of this million+ person leveling orgy to 50.

Which is why I feel like we do need a cross server LFG tool.
a valid point.
currently there are enough people around to do stuff. and in 6 month the majority is 50, which means there are enough lvl50 around to do stuff on 50. a lfg-tool can be helpful for the small pre-50 population then, but sooner or later everybody is 50.

Karzi's Avatar


Karzi
12.28.2011 , 06:14 PM | #50
Actually you can put "LFG" in the tool, for everyone that doesn't know how this thing works. This will show you how useless it is currently because almost no one will be on it.

Furthermore most the people have generic "lfg" as their comment. This is because the tool is bad and resets your comments regularly on going into your ship and the like.

This also wont change the fact that a tool like DDO has, which is LFM, is more useful anyway. As you can see what the party makeup and the like are. For instance a dps consular might not want to group with a healing one and fight over loot.

This tool is just bad, its like the same one we had in EQ but without the open dungeons to group up in.

ps: there are 16 people on my server using it at 7:17pm