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Ghisallo's Avatar


Ghisallo
11.21.2015 , 03:15 PM | #1701
Quote: Originally Posted by Infernixx View Post
Wait for Tuesday. You'll see.
Yep and I am fairly certain some people will still not be happy.
...We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its... changed form...
...To remind you that all humans make mistakes, and that all leaders are but human.
---Leto, Lion of Atreides

Ghisallo's Avatar


Ghisallo
11.21.2015 , 03:24 PM | #1702
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEnrique View Post
Actually no a lot of "people" are asking for reverse patch if you pay attention to a lot of the pages and read I'm not the only who thinks the buff won't be a good thing either some have made comments of maybe a "10%" raise with buffs. Why is it so wrong that people want to be independent?
You are correct, the problem is more than a few here and on other threads have made it clear that, for them, anything short of a full reversion is unacceptable. Half the reason this debacle grew as quickly as it did is because this particular camp created a hypoerbolic crap storm founded in the FALSE claim that healing was so broken the content was now impossible. So they will attempt to continue the crap storm without a full reversion. I predict an ugly Thanksgiving holiday on the forums.
...We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its... changed form...
...To remind you that all humans make mistakes, and that all leaders are but human.
---Leto, Lion of Atreides

Gorrdan's Avatar


Gorrdan
11.21.2015 , 03:26 PM | #1703
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghisallo View Post
You are correct, the problem is more than a few here and on other threads have made it clear that, for them, anything short of a full reversion is unacceptable. Half the reason this debacle grew as quickly as it did is because this particular camp created a hypoerbolic crap storm founded in the FALSE claim that healing was so broken the content was now impossible. So they will attempt to continue the crap storm without a full reversion. I predict an ugly Thanksgiving holiday on the forums.
On top of that the statement by Eric that players should be able to solo any 2+ heroic with their comp ins't helping either since as of now it is not true. Especially for those who are low level with low level influence companions.
Referral link for new and returning players. Free goodies for you and me
http://www.swtor.com/r/gMw59d

Lord_Sleepy's Avatar


Lord_Sleepy
11.21.2015 , 03:28 PM | #1704
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghisallo View Post
What drives me nuts is this. People defeat themselves in this game and then, imo, look for disingenuous excuses.

Example a few people were complaining about raiders. SM raiding in this game is something, quite literally, anyone can do. It is not hard in the least. Some probably just assume it is "work" from past games, others probably have no interest. So they demand changes designed for them, BUT since they didn't bother even trying for one of the above reasons, they then create a fiction that it's "hard work" and other non-sense because they feel they need a justification for their demands.

I can almost understand the first group but the second, those that don't have any interest period, yeah they are simply being disingenuous. The proper answer would not be "it's work and only a minority want to work in an MMO", because it's not work. To make matters worse they have no way of knowing because they've never tried. The proper answer is "I have no interest in raiding and so think resources should not be spent on it."

Other people did not even try content solo content after the change. They simply did nothing and cried because they saw a nerf in the patch notes and instantly said "IMPOSSIBLE!!!" If they did bother trying, on this, and other, threads you simply saw people post "X hps reduced to Y hps!?!?!" You then showed a parse where Y still allowed completion of a task. They ignored the fact that numbers in a video game are only as important as the result in game play and they just yelled again "X hps reduced to Y hps!?!?!?!" What was funny was if/when some people posted parses you could see THEY completed the encounter successfully BUT they completely ignored that fact in their "careful" analysis. Again disingenuous arguments.

This is not to say that people are not entitled to their opinions. Example, while I disagreed with them I respected the people who straight up said



This is an valid opinion expressed in a forthright manner. It is something that I can agree to disagree with and move on. It is the disingenuous and often hypocritical arguments that have driven me to frustration during this whole debacle.
I never complained about raiders (I also know you did not point a finger at me either) I don't raid for a couple reasons.
1. I generally don't care for the people I see in the game, well, chat at least, and prefer to play the game solo. That is not to say if I enjoy the solo experience enough I wouldn't decide to give it a try.
2. Most people would not enjoy grouping with me either, I am in chronic pain and after a short time need to get up and move because staying in the same position increases the pain level. Not anyone's fault and no reason I should force my problems on others and ruin their fun. I might, if enjoying the rest of the game decide to do what I can to be able to finish a raid.
3. A blanket buff would work as a stopgap measure, but a game mechanic that allows you to change how powerful your companion is would also encourage the casual players to learn a bit more, at their own speed and while still enjoying the game.

And never said it was impossible (again you did not point at anyone in specific) just not fun for me.

Ghisallo's Avatar


Ghisallo
11.21.2015 , 03:34 PM | #1705
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorrdan View Post
On top of that the statement by Eric that players should be able to solo any 2+ heroic with their comp ins't helping either since as of now it is not true. Especially for those who are low level with low level influence companions.
Ummm it is true IF you read the OP here. You are making the classic mistake of reading out of context. You say "should be able to solo any heroic 2+ BUT then say things like...

Quote:
Their companion’s role should begin to matter at this point, supplementing the player’s own Discipline. We expect some players to find these challenging initially—maybe even needing a friend’s help--but once the player earns better gear, a few levels of Influence with their companion, and has a greater understanding of the game, they should be able to solo the hardest of these missions.
Now I have no problem if someone wants to say they don't agree that concept that he very clearly expressed BUT your statement implies it should be done as soon as you are level/story eligible to do it. Clearly if we actually read what Eric said that was an assumption by players desiring instant gratification and not actually a statement by Eric.

Even in the much quoted other comment by Eric he mentioned the words "MORE CHALLENGING" Funny how when people bolded that quote the "more challenging part was either A) never included or B) intentionally not put in bold, don't ya think?

This is another part of my issue with the disingenuous nature of some of the arguments that have been floting around.
...We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its... changed form...
...To remind you that all humans make mistakes, and that all leaders are but human.
---Leto, Lion of Atreides

Noyjitat's Avatar


Noyjitat
11.21.2015 , 03:36 PM | #1706
Quote: Originally Posted by TwwIX View Post
It reminds me of SOE's awful balancing act of Planetside 2 and their demise. They're too busy "balancing" the game and the three unique factions to actually fix the game's core and longstanding issues that have been around since the testing phase.

"PTS server? QA feedback? What's that?"

Those incompetent twits coded themselves out of a job eventually. The company is now owned by an investment firm after Sony got rid of them. Looks like BioWare is employing balancing geniuses of equal prowess.
The first mistake people made was completely leaving planetside 1 to play that crap. Wasn't long before people went back to whatever non soe game they were playing and then around the time I quit both games were dead.

Ghisallo's Avatar


Ghisallo
11.21.2015 , 03:46 PM | #1707
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Sleepy View Post
I never complained about raiders (I also know you did not point a finger at me either) I don't raid for a couple reasons.
1. I generally don't care for the people I see in the game, well, chat at least, and prefer to play the game solo. That is not to say if I enjoy the solo experience enough I wouldn't decide to give it a try.
2. Most people would not enjoy grouping with me either, I am in chronic pain and after a short time need to get up and move because staying in the same position increases the pain level. Not anyone's fault and no reason I should force my problems on others and ruin their fun. I might, if enjoying the rest of the game decide to do what I can to be able to finish a raid.
3. A blanket buff would work as a stopgap measure, but a game mechanic that allows you to change how powerful your companion is would also encourage the casual players to learn a bit more, at their own speed and while still enjoying the game.

And never said it was impossible (again you did not point at anyone in specific) just not fun for me.

And like I said people who argue as you do I have no problem with. I may raise one question though, why play an MMO then when there are plenty of video games with these features, but that is one of those reasonable "agree to disagree" debates.

FYI... many of my arguments are because I look at games the way I do stuff irl. I never understood why people change their thought process the minute they enter a User name and password. Example irl I am one of those people who does those MS150 charity bike rides, runs charity 5ks and 10 milers etc. When I see people complaining how hard the bike ride was, when they were doing it on a Mountain Bike with knobby tires (wrong tool for road rides) and they say all they do is ride on the road I wil ask "then why in the world did you buy a bike designed to ride for 10 miles on dirty trails to ride 150 miles on tarmac?"

I apply the same concepts to my video games. I do not enjoy circle strafeing, bunny hopping PVP so when "realism servers" in Ghost Recon and COD went bye bye I stopped playing the games. I don't like fast twitch action games playstyles designed to work with console controllers so I did not buy GW2 after testing it and, as much as I LOVE Norrath, will not buy EQNext (if it ever comes out) because that is the current design for it as well.

So while I can respect your opinions and preferred playstyle I must also admit to being puzzled by seeing them expressed by people in an MMO.
...We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its... changed form...
...To remind you that all humans make mistakes, and that all leaders are but human.
---Leto, Lion of Atreides

Akeashar's Avatar


Akeashar
11.21.2015 , 03:48 PM | #1708
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghisallo View Post
You are correct, the problem is more than a few here and on other threads have made it clear that, for them, anything short of a full reversion is unacceptable. Half the reason this debacle grew as quickly as it did is because this particular camp created a hypoerbolic crap storm founded in the FALSE claim that healing was so broken the content was now impossible. So they will attempt to continue the crap storm without a full reversion. I predict an ugly Thanksgiving holiday on the forums.
Oh, I'm quite sure the crap storm will continue either way as the people that were defending the changes as being 'About right' and that everyone else should l2p will get their knickers in the twist with even the slightest buff to companions, let alone the numbers that are being bandied about which sound like they would be more useful for staying alive for squishier classes. The post on Monday should be quite enlightening, but it appears that the feedback and metrics have conclusively (for Bioware itself at least) put to rest that things are not all right with healer comps at present and defending the current level is defending the indefensible.

Since the patch came down I've all but avoided my 65 208 Fury Marauder due to the healing comp bugs. Its not just the level of healing that is too far down, its Vette getting distracted checking her tumblr instead of paying attention to the fight. Until yesterday at which point I tried out the Ilum and Makeb Heroics for the first time. Brutal but interesting, with most of the wiping coming from The Observer Heroic. (Since I've not progressed far in Makeb I didn't have all the Heroics unlocked)

Playing a rising Jedi Sage Seer in comparison has been interesting with the tank companion since Qyzen, C2-N2 and Theran have all proven quite good as tank companions for levelling Heroics. Each time I'd arrive at a new planet for the Class Quest, I'd go off and do the Heroics. I've done them all up through Alderaan (which I'm just finishing off) and the only time that I had any real issues was on Nar Shaddar during the Mandalorian and Morgukai Heroics. They were the first time I'd actually wiped on Heroics with the class although things got frantic at times, but they were doable with patience and the willingness to make sacrifices. That and I forgot Force Lift until Alderaan which is completely on my own head.

C2-N2 proved an especially apt tank with his influence rating of 1, although I'm tempted to keep using Theran just because of him using dancing Holiday as his CC move.

MerlockVonBaron's Avatar


MerlockVonBaron
11.21.2015 , 03:54 PM | #1709
only thing I rather see is more companion alerts so we can recruit more while we wait till chapter 10 is released. atm got nothing going on

Ghisallo's Avatar


Ghisallo
11.21.2015 , 04:00 PM | #1710
Quote: Originally Posted by Akeashar View Post
Oh, I'm quite sure the crap storm will continue either way as the people that were defending the changes as being 'About right' and that everyone else should l2p will get their knickers in the twist with even the slightest buff to companions, let alone the numbers that are being bandied about which sound like they would be more useful for staying alive for squishier classes. The post on Monday should be quite enlightening, but it appears that the feedback and metrics have conclusively (for Bioware itself at least) put to rest that things are not all right with healer comps at present and defending the current level is defending the indefensible.

Since the patch came down I've all but avoided my 65 208 Fury Marauder due to the healing comp bugs. Its not just the level of healing that is too far down, its Vette getting distracted checking her tumblr instead of paying attention to the fight. Until yesterday at which point I tried out the Ilum and Makeb Heroics for the first time. Brutal but interesting, with most of the wiping coming from The Observer Heroic. (Since I've not progressed far in Makeb I didn't have all the Heroics unlocked)

Playing a rising Jedi Sage Seer in comparison has been interesting with the tank companion since Qyzen, C2-N2 and Theran have all proven quite good as tank companions for levelling Heroics. Each time I'd arrive at a new planet for the Class Quest, I'd go off and do the Heroics. I've done them all up through Alderaan (which I'm just finishing off) and the only time that I had any real issues was on Nar Shaddar during the Mandalorian and Morgukai Heroics. They were the first time I'd actually wiped on Heroics with the class although things got frantic at times, but they were doable with patience and the willingness to make sacrifices. That and I forgot Force Lift until Alderaan which is completely on my own head.

C2-N2 proved an especially apt tank with his influence rating of 1, although I'm tempted to keep using Theran just because of him using dancing Holiday as his CC move.
The problem is that when Eric says in the OP here...

Quote:
We expect some players to find these challenging initially—maybe even needing a friend’s help--but once the player earns better gear, a few levels of Influence with their companion, and has a greater understanding of the game.... we expect you to have level-appropriate gear, a good understanding of your class, a companion with a few levels of Influence.... We expect most players to be able to solo these with a little practice and effort on their part to gain some increased power.... At this point we expect players to really understand their class, their companion, and their gear.
how is it unreasonable to at least ask "are you using the right rotations? Are you using CC and interrupts?" etc Because while I did see some jerks say "l2p" noob and such I also saw people upset with the changes getting their panties in a bunch over simple questions like these.

Lets be honest, the loudest voices against the nerfs were from people who often were at least honest and said they did not think the solo portion of the game should involve progression or "knowledge of your class". They thought steamrolling was appropriate. I will give those people kudos for honesty.
...We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its... changed form...
...To remind you that all humans make mistakes, and that all leaders are but human.
---Leto, Lion of Atreides