Vanguards are overpowered in 4.0!!!!!!!!!!\

... And then people still complain about other classes ...

HAHA user error, bad troll is bad. Let's look at the top ranked scores for each class (rating/score is as of this post)

Solo ranked

Jugg/Guard- 2291
Sent/Mara- 2179
Shadow/Assassin- 2097
Sage/Sorc- 3007
Vang/PT- 2845
Mando/Merc- 1893
Sling/Sniper- 1805
Han Solo/OP- 2160

Grp ranked

Sorc- 2202
Jugg- 1831
Mara- 1682
Sin- 1855
PT- 2237
Sniper- 1724
Merc- 1799
Op- 1788

Season 7 has not started........................................... ......

That's not current rating. It's from the previous season, before 4.0. We're in pre-season right now, so no ranking.

Summery of PvP QQ threads.


Sorcs, Shadows, Concealment Ops, Vanguards, and Guards are OP. The only classes that aren't are Mandos/Mercs and Slingers/Snipers but they hit too hard.

And almost all of those with the very top scores (at least in group ranked) were healers. DPS sorc's have taken a significant hit in 4.0 and are certainly not OP now. I think madness is probably OK and lightening needs some love. Corruption is a completely different issue, but not what I think that poster is referring to.

I have 0 care for your solo ranked gripes. I got 2.6k on my sniper and 2,2k on my gunslinger in season 2 and 2k in season 4 in solo ranked so I have firsthand knowledge of how mind-numbingly basic that game format is. Strategies don't surpass "kill star" or "go right". I thought everyone universally understood "4's" means group ranked, not 4 dps games lol.

4v4 group ranked is the test of how good pvpers are individually and as a team, and thus should be the format pvp balance is based on. What's good for a class in 4s will certainly be good in regs, the other most important type of pvp. Solo ranked is a gametype that's meant to be played for fun (the average skill level being higher than regs) or to get comms. Without trinity enforced, certain classes will always perform better regardless of skill level in solo ranked but those advantages usually do not hold up in a team setting. It's generally speaking the domain of trash talkers and pseudo-pro psychopaths who aren't good enough to play 4s (but some, I assume, are good people).

Also, it's a common theme around here for those that say "4v4 is a joke" to be the ones that a.) have never tried it or b.) would get annihilated at the level of pvp this game is meant to be played. Sure there's bad apple win traders out there on the low-pop servers, but games on Harbinger for example have been highly competitive for the past few seasons with some of the best players N/A qing up. There's also a ton of talent in Europe but I don't play over there myself. For those that enjoy pvp at its highest level, 4s will always be the place to be. It's the defeatist tradition of this forum to dismiss the presence of competitive pvp in this game, but some of us have been playing it this whole time and I find it highly enjoyable or I wouldn't still be subbed.

Game needs to be balanced around those that are playing competitively in group ranked and positioning those who may want to make the jump from regs to 4s to be successful playing a wide variety of classes while keeping regs fair for newcomers.

That you post outdated information in support of your argument proves my point. As I said...user error.

Yes. Vanguards/Powertechs are sooo overpowered that they dominate everything. Nerf them to ground.

Reality check.
I agree that AP has all the DR goodies and it should be more even with pyro. The suggestion of putting it into utilities makes perfect sense to me.
I agree that the AP rotation is a little boring and simplistic. Increasing its complexity would go a long way towards balancing the class without nerfing damage (and would make it more fun too).

Slightly off topic – Pyro… I love that you need to be a tricky SoB to catch 1 or more in a buffed flamethrower, but when you do, boy it’s sweet. So keep it, but reduce the ability bloat for the rotation pls. And putting some of the DR into utilities will help balance the two specs.