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Communication and Bioware...why this continues to be a problem

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Communication and Bioware...why this continues to be a problem

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.02.2015 , 03:25 PM | #71
Not that my approval is needed or even relevant, but.....

Quote: Originally Posted by Thunderstriken View Post
I would extend this idea to suggest that logic dictates this is more than "perhaps", it is "of course". Of course they understand their player base better than anyone. They are the only one with access to all the metrics. They make the decisions that they feel are best for the game that puts food on their table.
Unassailable. One can not deny that they do have access to information that most of us are not privy to, and anyone that is fair will have to admit that they could have very good reasons for what they do, even if it seems on the outside to be negative.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with your other points, but this one is rock solid IMO. The logic stands.

I also appreciate a spirited discussion. I wanted to thank you for sharing your views on the issue. Though I may not agree with some of your points I can appreciate your candor.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.02.2015 , 03:29 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM View Post
Thanks, I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that we really don't know what the reason is, perhaps it's incompetence, perhaps it's not.

But if it is truly incompetence, nothing said here is likely to help, because they won't really understand what we're saying in the first place. Is there a MMO out there that you think does it right?
STO and EVE. STO in particular has improved exponentially with it's community communication and promotion of new content.

Exploration is a good example. Drastic changes there, some scuttlebut, STO devs jumped in, ran around the net, explained the changes in detail, and it was well received (generally speaking of course).

....and they had a record quarter after that BTW

TravelersWay's Avatar


TravelersWay
11.02.2015 , 03:33 PM | #73
Great post LA. I was thinking about the communication issue when reading the CM feedback threads over the weekend - where the dev himself was stating how good and useful the dialogue was. That's the kind of communication that many players are looking for, but is sadly lacking on many other issues.

Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM View Post
And again you're assuming that they don't understand the playerbase. Perhaps they understand it better then we do, and much better than we think they do.

Perhaps they knew exactly what would've happened if they said something sooner, and they wanted to avoid that? What if revealing it sooner would of been a bad choice? The thing is, without knowing exactly why Bioware didn't say more sooner, we can't really judge what happened.

It's easy to assume incompetence, but without more information that is exactly that, an assumption.
It's not incompetence, but it's not really hard to guess where this type of communication, or lack thereof, stems from. In my experience, most developers would love to have an open dialogue with players about their game and features. However - the problem comes from those who are not directly on the dev team. The PR is EA's call and this kind of stuff is SOP for them and a few other publishers. Just look at the whole SimCity fiasco. Every time someone opened their mouth to attempt a BS reason for their foul-ups and decisions, they got caught with their foot in their mouths and with outright lies. Therefore, they went back to their SOP - radio silence until they stopped development on the game and gutted Maxis.

They knew exactly what would happen once players were made aware of the changes here. Therefore, BW was muzzled until after the end of the fiscal quarter, where the damage could be mitigated over time.
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Thunderstriken's Avatar


Thunderstriken
11.02.2015 , 03:34 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
..................The point you are missing, that is exactly pertinent, is that I am perfectly capable of making that decision without your feedback, and I will continue to offer feedback as I see fit.
You contention would be valid under a different original post. You are backpedaling. You did not frame this discussion under the context that you are merely expressing your opinion that you would like to see more communication, discussion, and decision making between Bioware and the players. There's simply no way unsay what you quite clearly said in the OP.

Your title clearly insists there is a problem.

Your summation clearly demands a solution to that problem.

The text in the middle is indeed wishy washy, but I feel that speaks more to an inability to support your contention than proof of your motivation to merely express an opinion.

Had your post been merely an expression of an opinion I can assure you my response would have been at most a statement of disagreement with perhaps an opposing opinion, however in all honestly I would have likely not bothered to even reply.
The biggest problem with MMO's is that while they provide tools to /ignore the worst of the bad, there are no tools to /prefer the best of the good, or even /+1 would play again the perfectly average.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.02.2015 , 03:35 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by TravelersWay View Post
Great post LA. I was thinking about the communication issue when reading the CM feedback threads over the weekend - where the dev himself was stating how good and useful the dialogue was. That's the kind of communication that many players are looking for, but is sadly lacking on many other issues.
Yea, I saw that too. Made me hopeful that things might change.

Sometimes Bioware surprises me.

dscount's Avatar


dscount
11.02.2015 , 03:36 PM | #76
I have to agree.. Communication allowed to flow from Eric to the community is CRAP.

If it's because EA overlords or BW marketing then they have a problem. Yes the VOCAL minority represent a good portion of the user community and yes some people just don't give rats behind.

BUT.. communication (Good or Bad) is still better than the DROPPED MICROPHONE treatment we continue to see on most of the forums. I know they read them and I know they discuss them, but no idea why they don't just drop a line in the water a little more often. The fact we didn't get the biggest bombshells of BAD news until almost the day before release goes to show they are not interested in keeping the existing customers (IMHO), but focused on new ones the movie will likely create. After that it's going to be a massive "Get our subs back" push in Q2 when masses leave the game after the movie hype is over.

This is not a NEW problem, but repeat of every year for the past xx years. In fact last JAN they admitted it was a problem and working on it in 2015. Well... year is almost over and I have to say the "working" part has been worse than handling of the Ravagers exploit and Slot machine fiasco combined. Communication still sucks bantha poo and as Eric himself has stated (Snave interview) he is the point man for end users communication and he is the point of contact (BLAME game).
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LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.02.2015 , 03:39 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Thunderstriken View Post
You contention would be valid under a different original post. You are backpedaling. You did not frame this discussion under the context that you are merely expressing your opinion that you would like to see more communication, discussion, and decision making between Bioware and the players. There's simply no way unsay what you quite clearly said in the OP.

Your title clearly insists there is a problem.

Your summation clearly demands a solution to that problem.

The text in the middle is indeed wishy washy, but I feel that speaks more to an inability to support your contention than proof of your motivation to merely express an opinion.

Had your post been merely an expression of an opinion I can assure you my response would have been at most a statement of disagreement with perhaps an opposing opinion, however in all honestly I would have likely not bothered to even reply.
Fair enough on all points. My post history stands in evidence as to my intent when I make a post. It is a rather long history, so there is plenty of evidence to peruse.

I have to say, you perceiving my post in that way does not make it so. It only makes it so TO YOU. Most folks here know me pretty well, and they know I often offer strong opinions on matters...as you obviously do.

I am sure we will meet in discussion again. But I see no need to qualify that which is obvious.
Quote: Originally Posted by Thunderstriken View Post
You did not frame this discussion under the context that you are merely expressing your opinion that you would like to see more communication, discussion, and decision making between Bioware and the players. There's simply no way unsay what you quite clearly said in the OP.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Just my opinion folks, one persons opinion. I speak for no one but myself.
You are absolutely right. It can not be unsaid.

You made a point, I indicated it was irrelevant, and then provided my reasons why. I would say the matter has been properly discussed.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.02.2015 , 03:41 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
I have to agree.. Communication allowed to flow from Eric to the community is CRAP.

If it's because EA overlords or BW marketing then they have a problem. Yes the VOCAL minority represent a good portion of the user community and yes some people just don't give rats behind.

BUT.. communication (Good or Bad) is still better than the DROPPED MICROPHONE treatment we continue to see on most of the forums. I know they read them and I know they discuss them, but no idea why they don't just drop a line in the water a little more often. The fact we didn't get the biggest bombshells of BAD news until almost the day before release goes to show they are not interested in keeping the existing customers (IMHO), but focused on new ones the movie will likely create. After that it's going to be a massive "Get our subs back" push in Q2 when masses leave the game after the movie hype is over.

This is not a NEW problem, but repeat of every year for the past xx years. In fact last JAN they admitted it was a problem and working on it in 2015. Well... year is almost over and I have to say the "working" part has been worse than handling of the Ravagers exploit and Slot machine fiasco combined. Communication still sucks bantha poo and as Eric himself has stated (Snave interview) he is the point man for end users communication and he is the point of contact (BLAME game).
Hello again Dscount. It's been a while.

I do not fault Eric for my contentions either. I think he is likely bound by limitations set on him from up high.

Thunderstriken's Avatar


Thunderstriken
11.02.2015 , 03:46 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
You made a point, I indicated it was irrelevant, and then provided my reasons why. I would say the matter has been properly discussed.
How very noble of you, and by noble I mean befitting unto your name. I feel everything I have to say on the matter has been adequately expressed, and seeing no need to further rebut your dismissals I tip my hat to you and bid you adieu. Until we meet again good sir.
The biggest problem with MMO's is that while they provide tools to /ignore the worst of the bad, there are no tools to /prefer the best of the good, or even /+1 would play again the perfectly average.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
11.02.2015 , 03:47 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Thunderstriken View Post
How very noble of you, and by noble I mean befitting unto your name. I feel everything I have to say on the matter has been adequately expressed, and seeing no need to further rebut your dismissals I tip my hat to you and bid you adieu. Until we meet again good sir.
Thank you. I look forward to another spirited discussion with you. I enjoyed it.