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Why Macros belong in TOR.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why Macros belong in TOR.

_compton_'s Avatar


_compton_
12.28.2011 , 10:27 AM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by MemphisIX View Post
I started doing PvP on my character only recently and yes, lack of macros is clearly hurting here.
For instance, I want to combine several non-GCD into a single button so that I can cast (playing a Shadow) Resilience and Force Cloak at the same time, but the functionality isn't available.
Macros, from this perspective, make for a more varied gameplay experience since I can combine existing buffs to create different versions of them, for different situations. I don't see the problem with that.

Also, the macros that allow me to change the cast bar upon holding shift, ctrl, or whatever button tickles my fancy seems soarely missing. What I'm left with is a clogged UI where I have to display 3 additional cast bars just to be able to keybind multiple abilities (a must in PvP, where there's a situation for every single skill you have, the mark of a good player is to know when to use them). This makes the problem of a not-so-good default UI even worse, since players ARE NOT given the tools to modify it, or make it more efficient in any conceivable way.

The OP mentioned focus, at this point, where PvP seems all about WZs, I don't see the desperate need for this functionality, but I wouldn't stand in the way of a player needing it, having a clear use for it, and finding that it's both lacking, and hurting their experience.

Also, and on a final note, I'd like to take the opportunity to once again voice my support for ADDONS. Keeping track of my procs in the default UI, in the heat of a PvP match is just, what's the word I'm looking for... Irritating (want of a better term). It's these tiny little icons, they are displayed there along with another 15 buffs and a few debuffs, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack, and many times I just miss it altogether.
This is just not the way I want to play PvP, I don't want the mere fact of knowing if I procced Particle Acceleration to be a challenge in an of itself. I already have a challenge which is to stay on top of my target while avoiding other attackers PLUS trying to lock down a healer. And on top of that I can't see if I procced my abilities? This delays my cast by maybe 5 seconds, but anybody familiar with PvP will now that's often the difference between life and death in a match.
Mem - use of focus and focus macros is more prevalent in arenas, certainly, but it is certainly a more efficient method in a BG/WZ setting as well.

@Rie - Yes, that would be a fine compromise. If they added mouseover support and enhanced focus macro support as individual components of the UI, I would be fine for that. I am not advocating for elaborate castsequence macros or any of that automated stuff.

MemphisIX's Avatar


MemphisIX
12.28.2011 , 10:27 AM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by Celebrus View Post
Drastically improve? Or make mind-numbingly boring and easy? Take your pick, it's always going to be seen differently.
Yeah, it doesn't make it "mind numbingly boring and easy", it makes it faster and that's it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tersidre
It is as if thousands of trolls cried out at once and then were suddenly silence, and then replaced by paying trolls.

bobaTBS's Avatar


bobaTBS
12.28.2011 , 10:28 AM | #223
Quote: Originally Posted by _compton_ View Post
@Boba

Yeah, it has been argued. Not effectively, though, and I'm only restating things because people are posting without actually reading the material (yourself included). The extent of your arguments has been - macros = crutch = decreased complexity, a simplistic and one-sided perspective that I've addressed in depth - again, multiple times.
My argument is that it simplifies the game, which it does. Your argument was "it adds depth to the game" with an attached "targeting is artificial raising of skill cap" when you got in over your head.

Goonso's Avatar


Goonso
12.28.2011 , 10:28 AM | #224
Da derp derp derpie herp herp? Herpie derpie berpie!

You want macros for 5 or 6 abilities? I think you don't know how to play. You were comfortable with WoW and smashing buttons but when you get into a new game you still want the feeling of the old game. No. Either adapt to the new style or macro off.

But yes, don't consider someones opinion going against what you believe to be trolling. This isn't WoW forums. Either you adapt or just stop playing, "Compton".
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MemphisIX's Avatar


MemphisIX
12.28.2011 , 10:30 AM | #225
Quote: Originally Posted by _compton_ View Post
Mem - use of focus and focus macros is more prevalent in arenas, certainly, but it is certainly a more efficient method in a BG/WZ setting as well.

@Rie - Yes, that would be a fine compromise. If they added mouseover support and enhanced focus macro support as individual components of the UI, I would be fine for that. I am not advocating for elaborate castsequence macros or any of that automated stuff.
Yes, I used focus macros all the time in arenas, I was simply stating that my own personal experience as a melee damage dealer, I'm not finding the absence of focus hindering in any way. But I can see it being vital for a healer, say in Huttball, and that's just off the top of my head.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tersidre
It is as if thousands of trolls cried out at once and then were suddenly silence, and then replaced by paying trolls.

NightHawke's Avatar


NightHawke
12.28.2011 , 10:31 AM | #226
Quote: Originally Posted by MandoArc View Post
No NO no NO

Macro is for lazy ppl who dont want to do anything them self what we do need is AUTOATTACK tire of spaming the same key over and over
This.

It is indeed skill less.

What you are going to find is that there will be flavor of the month builds for classes and skills... but also FoTM macros as things are tested.

This you will have scoundrels and shadows (and mirrors) hitting a button, now they can completely focus on running around the target without pushing anything else.

Making these classes that take a tad of skill (even with it dumbed down a bit) into a class than anyone can do and be. So now we will have armies of shadows, armed with macros, running around circle strafing because they dont have to push any buttons with their mouse.

Woot!


Sorry man, macros are just being lazy. The only macro I can see having is an autoloot one, or maybe even an area autoloot. But we already have that.
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Thaonnor's Avatar


Thaonnor
12.28.2011 , 10:31 AM | #227
Quote: Originally Posted by _compton_ View Post
There is nothing automated about focus macros. By inhibits, I mean that I believe gameplay is faster and more fluid when focus macros are present, and that I can play more efficiently and effectively when permitted to utilize the focus system.

I had already adapted to the absence of macros before I queued for my first warzone - that does not mean that their absence did not detract from my experience or decrease my enjoyment - it did. Not because I was incapable of playing - the converse actually, I excelled - but because the combat felt awkward and clunky in comparison.
Macro - Computing a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task. (Oxford)

All macros are by definition automated. They are automating a process in which would normally be done by clicking the target to focus them. Now that our definition of macro is cleared up (unless of course you would like to argue with dictionary definitions, in which case we have much larger issues than macros in SWTOR).

You believe that gameplay is faster and more fluid with macros present. I understand this, as again the definition lends a helping hand. Not having to actually do something does in fact make it faster, and more fluid. Pressing a simple button and having it automatically done for you will definitely make things more fluid and faster. There is no doubt that having something be automatic does make your play time more efficient, as you do not in fact have to make the input or have the awareness to look around and click the player yourself.

It is great that you have adapted, because there are not macros in this game. I am by no means saying that you do not have the right to talk about how your experience would be better with macros. However, that is not an argument that is any stronger than those who claim there should not be macros because it ruins their experience. By the fact that we are all paying the same amount of money per month, you could assume that we are all equal in the amount of power our experience and opinions have on shaping the game.

I will agree with you t hat the combat is awkward and clunky. However, the solution to an awkward clunky game is not to send players to Google to find the best macros to use to get around the clunkyness, but rather to fix the clunkyness and make it more playable for all players, not just those who wish to automate their gameplay. This also makes things better for newer players, who come into the game and may judge the game based on its face value, not the value with macro complexity added.

_compton_'s Avatar


_compton_
12.28.2011 , 10:32 AM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by Goonso View Post
Da derp derp derpie herp herp? Herpie derpie berpie!

You want macros for 5 or 6 abilities? I think you don't know how to play. You were comfortable with WoW and smashing buttons but when you get into a new game you still want the feeling of the old game. No. Either adapt to the new style or macro off.

But yes, don't consider someones opinion going against what you believe to be trolling. This isn't WoW forums. Either you adapt or just stop playing, "Compton".
Yet another poster who failed to actually read the OP. Maybe I should keep a count.

I have not and do not consider opinions which conflict with my own to be trolling. In fact, I've stressed that point. I'll quote the troll post in a second, it was clearly a troll and clearly not constructive. Compton is my last name, I fail to see what how putting it in quotes adds anything to the merit of your statement.

"Goonso".

Yes, all macros are inherently automated to some extent - but the ones to which most of the ignorant posters are referring to are actually addons that perform in game tasks for you without input - such as automatically identifying and targeting a healer - and that is also what I was referring to. The entire process of casting a spell is automated. The aiming process is automated. Hotkeys function as a "shortcut" as well. This can devolve into relativism really, really quickly.

@Boba
You still haven't said anything new, nor have you supported your arguments or really gone into much depth at all.

@Th- I appreciate your rational approach and the fact that you're not simply reiterating something that's already been said.

Thanks for contributing.

MemphisIX's Avatar


MemphisIX
12.28.2011 , 10:34 AM | #229
I guess at the heart of this discussion lie differing views on what should make the game challening.

Me? I think it should be the mechanics themselves that present the challenge, whereas moving around and accessing my abilities in the easiest and smoothest way possible should be encouraged.

I see others here suggesting that not being able to click on someone easily is "part of the challenge" and therefore should stay as is.

In the latter case I'd opine, however, that you may as well get rid of hotkeys altogether, that will provide the ultimate challenge in PvP, I can assure you that.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tersidre
It is as if thousands of trolls cried out at once and then were suddenly silence, and then replaced by paying trolls.

MemphisIX's Avatar


MemphisIX
12.28.2011 , 10:38 AM | #230
Quote: Originally Posted by NightHawke View Post
This.

It is indeed skill less.

What you are going to find is that there will be flavor of the month builds for classes and skills... but also FoTM macros as things are tested.

This you will have scoundrels and shadows (and mirrors) hitting a button, now they can completely focus on running around the target without pushing anything else.

Making these classes that take a tad of skill (even with it dumbed down a bit) into a class than anyone can do and be. So now we will have armies of shadows, armed with macros, running around circle strafing because they dont have to push any buttons with their mouse.

Woot!


Sorry man, macros are just being lazy. The only macro I can see having is an autoloot one, or maybe even an area autoloot. But we already have that.
So, clearly you don't play a Shadow. I do, and it's not button mashing, let me say that. I put a lot of care into my talent build, I use every single ability in my book, and after a while, I can finally see that I'm getting slightly better.
Besides, I don't know, maybe you don't allow macros that allow you to hit a button and do everything you need. No one here is asking for that, we just want enhanced functionality.
Quote: Originally Posted by Tersidre
It is as if thousands of trolls cried out at once and then were suddenly silence, and then replaced by paying trolls.