4.0 = Resetting toons to lvl 55 and 162 gear, fresh grind, same content...

^ this right here...

my guild is pretty active, we've won all but 4 of the planets in conquest, we run all the ops, we often have 20+ people online every night...

The past few weeks we've been running older stuff, TFB/DF/DP, and even a little EV/EC/KP, mostly to keep everyone together and wait for the new expansion.

Ok, so in 4 weeks, 4.0 drops... then what? Go run TFB/DF/DP again? Why? For more shinies?

It will be well into 2016 before anything new to do as a group drops. The solo stuff in 4.0 can be done in an evening, by yourself.

There is nothing to do for the rest of the year as a group. This makes me sad...

Except... that isn't how it works... it has never worked that way... this is coming way sooner than both 2.0 and 3.0 came, and both of those actually came with MMO content...

I can buy a single player game and own it, they don't require subs. They also come with a LOT more content than is dropping in 4.0.

^ This...

I built up several toons with set piece bonus token drops from Rav and ToS. This was fun because it was a reasonable thing to work towards with my guild. We would run 2 nights a week and hammer away to get people geared up.

Ok, that is fine, but it is also done. I'm not going to get 22 toons setup in set piece token gear, that's a bit nuts. The rest are in elite/ultimate comms gear, which is plenty frankly for almost everything.

Now what... 4.0 drops and now I need to... what, run Rav and ToS again, for 220 set piece token gear? Wait a min, didn't I just do that?

Oh, no, I get it, now I can run EC/EV/KP for the same thing! Woot! Except, wait a min, didn't I do that 3 years ago? And 2 years ago, didn't I do that for TFB/S&V/DF/DP? Yep.

I would not be complaining one bit if 2 new ops and a few flashpoints were dropping with 4.0. I would have something new to farm. As it stands, I'll probably try each of the ops just to see what they look like at lvl 65, but I can't see myself running them on farm anymore, I've done that too many times.

^ Likewise, that was a great game...

Level bumps are nice if it enables you to go back and do the older content that was really hard, at a more casual level. Otherwise, nothing is stopping the new story content from showing up at lvl 60 and having 216/220/224 gear at lvl 60.

The bump to 65 is completely unneeded without new group content.

How more clear do they need to be? They are focusing on story this time around.
Did we really need yet another topic complaining about the lack of new ops? Could you have not made your point in one of the existing threads on the topic or did you need the soapbox for attention?

You should really stop using words like "all" when the changes that we are getting are due to "raiders" being a minority of the players ( we can get back into the whole metrics debate again if people want but no one managed to defend a position of "bioware don't know their own metrics" last time either. ).

For many other players having the 50/55 ops at max level is a breath of fresh air and will make more content relevant for them to do ( I'm in that boat but I won't try act as though my opinion must be the same for everyone else as you've tried to do here ). It will also increase the amount of people doing the content making it far easier for casual PVE players to get into a PUG or GF and give it a go.

Sure YOU might feel like you have nothing fresh to do and you're no doubt correct for your own personal circumstances but you should probably realise you're part of a minority here and I personally see these changes as being part of making that minority grow by making raiding more accessible and attractive to far more people. Sure you miss out on new ops this time but get over it already, they'll be coming in time as promised no doubt.

To imply this is just some sort of reset is just silly otherwise you could make that point every time they expand the level cap. After all if this is all just the content you don't actually have to grind out for new gear do you because you've done it all before? You can wait out the new ops and then do the grind when it's relevant to your circumstances ( needing fresh content to grind for the new gear ) - if it so happens then you've done absolutely everything and have months to kill before the new ops come along and the existing content that has been leveled up is sooo boring because you've done it so much before maybe it's time to go do something else for awhile?

I doubt you will though, I bet we still see you here in 5 months time playing the game because really it's just not that boring for you and you can always find something to do to have fun but hey, I may be wrong and you'll be gone.


Out of interest I note there are only 11 guilds on my server ( Harb ) that are 10/10 for Rav/ToS - that's 88 players that can ideally say they've done everything, operation wise, that this game has to offer and yet I wonder how many of those 88 did all the old OPs @ NiM etc. when they were level relevant. I would imagine it would narrow that 88 down even further.
Also I'm guessing of course that's 8M, is 16M even a thing for that content? More challenges ahead then if not, something else to aim for *shrug*.

Why doesn't it require the cap increase? Are you implying we only need a cap increase when new ops are introduced? If so then why do we need it for new ops but not for new story content? I fail to see the difference here.

You're not really doing that though as I see it. You seem to be more grand standing and trying to make a point that Bioware are up to sneaky tricks with their new gear being added and that no one needs to do it because we've all done it before and it's all oh so pointless.

If you wanted to voice your displeasure you could have done so in the other topics ( like the 100 page one about operations in KoTFE ) in a far more constructive manner than trying to play the "Bioware are pulling the wool over our eyes" card.

In most of wow-clones in new addon you can get new skill (i.e. new utility point in SWTOR system) or two for next 5-10 levels without losing the the old ones (to regain them later in SWTOR... oh my), mostly complete storyline (not just a 50% of all chapters in SWTOR ) and also increased stats.

A bit different for me.

The player base is going to change, because the type of new content they chose to make has changed. It's really not one of their goals to retain the exact same player base that exists now (or existed at any snapshot of time in the past). I think it will be very interesting to see if they have chosen wisely.

There is no way that we ever log in with the same gear and stats, and find the same content HARDER* to do than it was the day before.

* and before one of the usual trolls shows up and says something like "Hurhur, l2p, lol noobtards" -- that's "harder" as in "the math changes such that the relative or comparative damage/heal/soak output of the PC is lower against the same mobs than it was previously".

Again, why would adding in new flashpoints etc. warrant a level increase but story not? Hell why bother having levels at all right unless they are adding in new flashpoints and operations?

I fail to get your logic on why we NEED levels for FP/OPs but if we don't get FP/OPs then we don't NEED levels? Seems just like a bias opinion to me.

Then you can all quit if you're soo disinterested with it all.
As I said before, you're a minority if that's your stance on it. Far more people from forum discussions ( refer 100 page topic on the same topic ) to general chat are quite excited about what the changes will bring to pugging and GF for FP and operations because right now it's all but dead ( compared to how it was when DP/DF launched and we had 5 ops @ 55 ).
Me personally - I'll be gearing up with the SM ops then giving the newly levels HM and maybe even NiM ops a go at the challenge that they were supposed to be known for as opposed to the snore fest I've come to know them as where it's just too damn easy. I'll have tons of easy content ( sm ) and tons of hard content ( HM/NiM ) to choose from.
Yes I've done the old content HM/NIM but not when it was at level as I'm sure many other haven't - it should be great fun working through it all.

Also where you are getting your "work through KoTFE in a single evening" figures from? You'vep layed it already I assume? Heck you don't even need to wait for it to launch it seems in that case.

Your analogy fails, you're not buying KoTFE. You are getting it for being a subscriber to this game along with literally 1000's of hours of other content you can do. If you've done that already or have in inclination to do it then that's your problem, not everyone else's.

You NEED to why exactly? If you're 10/10 congratulations, as I pointed out barely anyone is, the % of people who are 10/10 vs subbed active players of this game would be such a huge minority it wouldn't even be worth blinking at ... I think you'd be lucky if it's half a %.

Yes YOU did those things. I'm fairly confident a huge majority of players in the game didn't plus they want to attract new players, not just appease you and your few mates who have "done it all".

Why? We could get new group content and still not need a level bump, your argument doesn't hold water.

Welcome to theme-park MMOs. Every expansion is an "ooh new shinies to grind for" and pay for expansion regardless of content or price.