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"Streamlined leveling"...

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CaraExas's Avatar


CaraExas
09.15.2015 , 12:03 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by -Silver- View Post
For example, Strike, Master Strike, Zealous Strike, Slash, Cyclone Slash, Leg Slash, for Jedi Sentinels. All sound similar. Leg Slash is just a cripple, so why not fold that into an existing skill like the standard Slash to make it more appealing and reduce bloat at the same time? Master Strike and Zealous Strike are both lightsaber skills that execute a series of melee attacks over X seconds, with the only difference being that Master Strike also stuns weaker enemies for the duration. Why not just make that an upgrade to one of the two skills and fold them into one? If animation variety is an issue, why not expand Strike's "finishing blow" dynamic animation across all abilities? If Zealous Strike is folded into Master Strike, that skill could still play either animation randomly.

It's strange seeing every other MMO out there opt for less skills, reducing them and making each skill more versatile and powerful to make them more exciting to use and easier to manage, while SWTOR ignores that trend despite the recent cash injection for the expansion and looming film releases. MOBAs are a fantastic example of how to do this well, with most characters having only 4 skills, but each skill being incredibly versatile in varying situations. ESO has a lot of fun with skill customization, having each skill start off the same way for each player, but then allowing them to add additional effects onto each skill as they level up, customizing their skills based on their preferred play style. Guild Wars 2 follows a similar approach, allowing players to choose a small number of skills from a roster of powerful and versatile ones, customizing their character in the process. SWTOR just says "Here, have everything, enjoy managing four hotbars."

Personally, I'd reduce the number of skills by up to 50% for each class, aim to fit them all on one hotbar, and make them all more versatile and possibly customizable. I'd get rid of the need to repeatedly "level up" skills at a trainer and have them improve automagically as you level. Do that and I'd expect a much stronger attach rate from the new influx of players from Episode VII. As it stands, the quantity and (in some cases, ie Leg Slash) blandness of skills are the most archaic aspect of SWTOR as an MMO, similar to WoW from the better half of a decade ago, and all the new players are going to notice it.
the misconception with this post is mind boggling.

and explains why little effort is going into the combat system

because little effort is being put into trying to learn it. tool tips are there for a reason.

Master strike is a three second channel. its focus neutral, and is the back bone of some Knight specs, others its just a decent filler, and in watchmen, its clipped for optimal use.

zealous strike, has a shorter cooldown, only consumes a GCD just like every damaging ability, and is you main "focus builder" ability in most specs.

Crippling Slash, its not just a root, it also applies a healing debuff, so any healing going onto your target is reduced by 20%.

and slash is a small rage building filler that you want to find rotations/priority systems were you use it minimally.

4 different abilities, with 4 different functionalities, that are meant to be used at 4 different times. try again.

also, the compairison between games is like trying to say a cucumber, an orange and a cheeseburger are all the same thing. The philosophies and game engines used are so vastly

MOBA's are about timing, and how well do you know the hero that the opponent is using, how do you counter it in their role, and how well do you know how to use the one you are on.

GW2 is about micro managing your boons you put out, how to condi cleanse, and some specs (mainly DD Ele) do require "optimal rotations" that can be a bit complex. Also, your positioning is paramount in that game. If you don't position yourself correctly, you can chunk yourself, and be put into a downstate very quickly.

ESO was meant to be simple because at some point they were going to (and did) port it to console, so it had to be dumb as **** to play. The same goes for Neverwinter.

Point is, or a TLDR if you will: if you are trying to manage 4 hotbars, and trying to keep everything on CD, you are doing it wrong.



also, if you are wondering, "what abilities should i be using while leveling? what i can i do to make it simpler?"

Heat-Wave's Avatar


Heat-Wave
09.15.2015 , 09:09 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by CaraExas View Post
the misconception with this post is mind boggling.

and explains why little effort is going into the combat system

because little effort is being put into trying to learn it. tool tips are there for a reason.
The game has gone casual since launch. What once was more of a hard core MMO has become much more casual friendly. It only makes sense that combat would become simpler as well.

Everything from gear to leveling to traveling has gotten easier. At launch, sprint wasn't even turned on until, I think, level 10. Speeders were level 25. Today, we have instant quick travel, instant fleet pass, priority transport terminals, speeders at lvl 10, etc. Gear comes out of our ears, basic comms are everywhere and mods are only 2 basic each. Good moddable starter gear exists at lvl 7 now on the fleet (would be nice for that vendor to be copied to the starter planets).

So all your details about which ability to use might be accurate, but it hardly matters anymore. Skill trees are gone, and there is a decent chance that even the 2 different DPS options for each AC might go too.

Linyivee's Avatar


Linyivee
09.15.2015 , 09:37 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
"We're working on crafting blog"
"We're working on Alliance blog"
"We're working on gearing/stats blog"
"We're working on companions/influence blog"

Bioware, you do realize it's 1 month left till the expansion right?
BioWare has a blog for that as well.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
09.15.2015 , 09:46 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
If you thought the game has ever truly been a waste of time, you would not play it.

If your time really is that valuable, you should not be playing a computer game.
Why is that bran? I consider playing games to be a tremendous waste of time...but I enjoy it. It's fun...but it's literally as unproductive as watching TV is.

And most players time is valuable because it's limited...mine is as well...I guess you're lucky (or un?) that you have so little in life to compete for your game time...most of us aren't like that.
Quote: Originally Posted by MillionsKNives View Post
Quality and useful contribution to the thread as always bran.
Amen! I've yet to see much beyond "you should quit" suggestions...antagonizing at it's best. I love how Bioware lets bran run off their customers so freely.
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ZavienUK's Avatar


ZavienUK
09.15.2015 , 09:50 AM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Heat-Wave View Post

Everything from gear to leveling to traveling has gotten easier. At launch, sprint wasn't even turned on until, I think, level 10. Speeders were level 25. Today, we have instant quick travel, instant fleet pass, priority transport terminals, speeders at lvl 10, etc. .
Quality of life improvements != easier

Erm...not being able to sprint/users speeders till later/taking longer to travel is not more difficult. You have a rather strange view on this - more tedious != more difficult!

HarleysRule's Avatar


HarleysRule
09.15.2015 , 09:54 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
> Any plans to actually make companions more powerful now that we are deep into single player territory? This especially applies to "Tank" companions who are just laughably bad at their role(25% DR...really? A DPS Guard has more than that!)
A lot of good questions, but I just wanted to focus on this one, because tank companions in beta DID have the DR buff. Still boggled as to why they did away with them. Last time I played him, my Operative had more DR than either of my tank companions with similar power gear.

Qouivandes's Avatar


Qouivandes
09.15.2015 , 11:46 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
These are good questions! We are working on a blog which will talk about what streamlined leveling means for Fallen Empire. My hope is to get it out sometime next week and we can talk through any unanswered questions then. Thanks everyone.

-eric
if you keep putting things off till "next week" then the expansion will be here and you wont need to worry about disseminating anything, but dealing with a lot of *** threads; which you can them summarily dismiss.

if you are proud of what, at this stage, should be a final product then there is very little reason to post it and not work on some half baked blog post that leaves more questions than it answers.

if you are nervous that you are so fundamentally changing an aspect of the game that you are concerned about sub loss then, tbh, you'll see that regardless and it would be a good idea to just say, "yes, we are changing crafting like this and it will greatly impact what you are doing now." this will save folks a lot of time, sweat, and tears...ours and yours.

holding on to the binkey isnt doing anyone any good.
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Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
09.15.2015 , 11:58 AM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Heat-Wave View Post
The game has gone casual since launch. What once was more of a hard core MMO has become much more casual friendly. It only makes sense that combat would become simpler as well.

Everything from gear to leveling to traveling has gotten easier. At launch, sprint wasn't even turned on until, I think, level 10. Speeders were level 25. Today, we have instant quick travel, instant fleet pass, priority transport terminals, speeders at lvl 10, etc. Gear comes out of our ears, basic comms are everywhere and mods are only 2 basic each. Good moddable starter gear exists at lvl 7 now on the fleet (would be nice for that vendor to be copied to the starter planets).

So all your details about which ability to use might be accurate, but it hardly matters anymore. Skill trees are gone, and there is a decent chance that even the 2 different DPS options for each AC might go too.
So...you actually prefer to waste time instead of actually having fun? ...

...ever heard of a thing called "efficiency"?
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DomiSotto's Avatar


DomiSotto
09.15.2015 , 12:12 PM | #89
Quote:
Why is that bran? I consider playing games to be a tremendous waste of time...but I enjoy it. It's fun...but it's literally as unproductive as watching TV is.
Ah, no. Watching TV is the worst activity. Videogaming compared to TV increases creativity, problem solving skills and reflexes, and reduces aggression. All and all, if you have to pick one poison, gaming is it.
Deal.

Narratja's Avatar


Narratja
09.15.2015 , 12:16 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
(...) I spend a lot of time replaying stories and sub 50 is just as important to me as new KoTFE bits are.
(...) how about just letting us watch our previous conversations? (...)
I totally second that!