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TOR Raid Loot - A Good Problem

sithlordmauler's Avatar


sithlordmauler
12.28.2011 , 07:48 AM | #1
So, as me and my guild have discussed about upcoming raiding is that this raid system is far more complex than previous unmentioned games. In the past we have been able to handle this with a simple need before greed master-looted roll system. However, the more I look at this system the more I see that not fitting. Here are some scenarios:

Somebody needs the item and can equip it right then.
Somebody needs the item after crafting, buying, or applying mods to it.
Somebody needs the item for all the mods, and then will discard the item.
Somebody needs the item for some of the mods, and then will discard the item.
Somebody needs just one of the mods from the item.
Somebody wants the "graphics" of the item and will discard the mods.
Somebody wants any combination of the above for offspec.
Somebody wants any combination of the above for their companion.

Im sure there are possibly some more reasons, but as you can see this is pretty complex. We have discussed various methods to handle loot distribution and I was wondering everybody else's opinion on the options:

Loot Council - Group of officers distribute the raid based on the needs of the guild. Pros: The needs of the guild are met, and little maintenance. Cons: Possible hurt feelings, and feeling by members that they have no say-so in matters.

DKP(zero sum or simple) - Raiders are rewarded points based on raid clearing, and can redeem those points for loot. Pros: people with good attendance get rewarded more, allows people who need the loot in any degree of severity to have possible access to loot. Cons: Hoarding points, high management time.

Suicide Kings - A DKP variant that sets each person on a 1-16 scale and when distributing loot you go by the scale starting with 1 and ending with 16 and if it lands on a person who can use AND has the DKP AND wants the item they can go for it. Pros: prevents the hoarding of conventional DKP, and introduces more randomness. Cons: Very complex to manage.

Please list out any other pros/cons or any other comments or methods of loot distribution.
Acha'ikosia - Scoundrel DPS
<Grievance>
Jedi Covenant - US

Random_Axcess's Avatar


Random_Axcess
12.28.2011 , 08:02 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by sithlordmauler View Post
Loot Council - Group of officers distribute the raid based on the needs of the guild. Pros: The needs of the guild are met, and little maintenance. Cons: Possible hurt feelings, and feeling by members that they have no say-so in matters.
This is the worst of all systems because much like Communism it only works on paper. In the short term your guild will trust what the officers say, but in the long term enough people will feel slighted that items are only going to the favorites (true or not). Eventually this system will tear the guild apart as members split off until it finally dies.

Quote:
DKP(zero sum or simple)
This is the best and simplest system to use, you get DKP for attendance and supporting the guild. All members of a raid force will be used to this system and those who do not will weed themselves out. The only major problem with this system is the actual DKP number for drops as there is no long standing system as with other games. I would suggest creating an excel spread sheet and use a base number for blues/oranges/purples by slot. That why you can adjust it as needed based on stats and items that will actually be used and those that will be left to rot (companion bait 1/3 DKP).

As for the management problems you need to have an active and well performing core group of officers that will take responsibility for the guild. I would suggest updating the DKP points every 2-3 days and rotating its management to a different officer every two weeks, this will weed out officers that can't cut and should be removed.

GhoXen's Avatar


GhoXen
12.28.2011 , 08:03 AM | #3
DKP system all the way.

Loot Council only works well if there is an extremely low member turnover in the raid.

Ashorian's Avatar


Ashorian
12.28.2011 , 08:26 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Random_Axcess View Post
This is the worst of all systems because much like Communism it only works on paper. In the short term your guild will trust what the officers say, but in the long term enough people will feel slighted that items are only going to the favorites (true or not). Eventually this system will tear the guild apart as members split off until it finally dies.
someone has had bad experiences with loot council. both dkp and loot council are great systems and both have the capacity to be misused or for loot to go to the wrong place at the wrong time. personally i prefer loot council even when i'm not on the council itself. it helps to have council members that have a clear vision of where gear should go when and why. every form of loot distribution has the potential for drama. the key is to weed out the players who don't understand or like the way your system is, regardless of which one you choose.

to me, loot council has within it the capacity to be both the best system and the worst system. dkp is slightly more forgiving, but only if there is decay.



hi

sithlordmauler's Avatar


sithlordmauler
12.28.2011 , 11:47 AM | #5
The more I look at this, the more I am interested by "Spend-All Suicide Kings" type of system. For those of you that dont know, it is a marriage of DKP and Suicide Kings. Everybody collects a pre-set amount from a kill and you accumulate points. However, when you collect an item, your count is reset to zero regardless how many points you had. To me it is the closest thing to having a "need before greed/one drop a night" type of system.

Benefits Include:

Not having to set a manual entry for item amounts.
Adds a bit of chance.
Prevents hoarding, as it has a built-in decay system.
Easy to add new people in compared to standard suicide kings.
Very transparent to the raiders
Rewards, but not overrewards, regular attenders.
Can grant special bonuses(first group EV clear or whatnot).
Never faced with managing negative points as each kill grants points
Possibly use a loot council oversight for tied rolls.
We also use Enjin.com for our guild hosting which has this system built into it!

What do you folks think about that system?
Acha'ikosia - Scoundrel DPS
<Grievance>
Jedi Covenant - US

Exertim's Avatar


Exertim
12.28.2011 , 12:09 PM | #6
Loot council only works if it's a small tight-knit group (most likely an 8man guild) of friends. I definitely would never try it with a guild filled with people you have never played with before.